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So is it twice a day or three times for prayer?

Started by Ervin, October 01, 2024, 02:53:58 AM

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amin

Nothing is plain ritual, except if understood its purpose, the original Salat is to unite people and do reading moral and other aspects of nature including science, its an age old practice of the ancient world, whose purpose is lost and become meaningless in the new world and the plain ritual is retained by some.
Quran do not talk about the ritual in detail, means its the reality, it can be done in multiple ways and to the people's needs. Now a days we have modern schools which are in a way are Salat establishments but many had become business centers. So reading, accepting/submitting and doing as per whats learnt is what is Salat all about. One two three doesnt matter and not an important aspect, this is my current understanding.

shukri

"Information Only"

Question: What is a minimum number of salats per day based on mathematical analysis?
Two or three!

Note:
This analysis is made based on the keyword "the middle the salat (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ)", which is contested by many as not a name of salat in the Quran!
The word and the spelling of each parameter used is based on written text by Rashad Khalifa ... https://submission.org/QI
On-line calculator determine arabic gv: https://www.abjadcalc.com
The gematrical value for alone hamza "ء" is 1, equal to gv for alif "ا" AND The gematrical value of "ة" is 5 (These gv values normally used by Rashad Khalifa).

(A) The number of salats in verse 2:238
2:238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ), and devote yourselves totally to God (Rashad Khalifa translation)
(حٰفِظوا عَلَى الصَّلَوٰتِ وَالصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ وَقوموا لِلَّهِ قٰنِتينَ)

Add-up digit of verse 2:238
2:238 --> 2+2+3+8 = 15

(Case 1) ... three salats
Total gv for "salat al-Fajr" (صَلوٰةِ الفَجرِ) = 445
Total gv for "salat al-Isha" (صَلوٰةِ العِشاءِ) = 534
Total gv for "al-salat al-Wustha" (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ) = 278

445+534+278 = 1257
1257 --> 1+2+5+7 = 15

(Indication: Since the add-up digit of total gv for three selected salats equal to add-up digit for verse 2:238, we can assume that there are three intrinsic salats in verse 2:238)

(Case 2) ... two salats without "al-salat al-Wustha"
Total gv for "salat al-Fajr" (صَلوٰةِ الفَجرِ) = 445
Total gv for "salat al-Isha" (صَلوٰةِ العِشاءِ) = 534

445+534 = 979
979 --> 9+7+9 = 25 (Not a digit of 15)

(Indication: Since the add-up digit of total gv for two selected salats not of the digit 15, we can assume that the intrinsic salats in verse 2:238 is not count of two)

(Case 3) ... Total gv for phrase "حٰفِظوا عَلَى الصَّلَوٰتِ" of verse 2:238
2:238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ), and devote yourselves totally to God (Rashad Khalifa translation)
(حٰفِظوا عَلَى الصَّلَوٰتِ وَالصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ وَقوموا لِلَّهِ قٰنِتينَ)

Total gv for phrase (حٰفِظوا عَلَى الصَّلَوٰتِ) = 1662
1662 --> 1+6+6+2 = 15

(Indication: Since the add-up digit of phrase "حٰفِظوا عَلَى الصَّلَوٰتِ" equal to digit of 15, we can conclude that the number of salats (الصَّلَوٰتِ) in this phrase is three i.e. salat al-Fajr, al-salat al-Wustha and salat al-Isha)

(B) The salat meant by the first phrase of verse 17:78
17:78 You shall observe the Prayer when the sun declines from its highest point at noon as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed (Rashad Khalifa translation)
(أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ وَقُرءانَ الفَجرِ إِنَّ قُرءانَ الفَجرِ كانَ مَشهودًا)

Total gv for phrase (أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ) =  2096
2096 --> 2+0+9+6 = 17

Total gv for "the-salat the-Wustha" (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ) = 278
278 --> 2+7+8 =17

(Indication: The phrase of "أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ" is referring to "the-salat the- Wustha")

(C) The word the middle "الوسطى" in verse 2:238
2:238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle (الوسطى) prayer, and devote yourselves totally to God (Rashad Khalifa translation)

Total gv for "the middle" (الوسطى) = 116
116 --> 1+1+6 = 8

Total gv for "the noon" (الظهيرة) =1151
1151 -->1+1+5+1 = 8

(Indication: The word "the middle الوسطى" is inter-related to the word "the noon الظهيرة")


The findings:
(1) Based on the above analysis, the minimum number of salats in verse 2:238 is three NOT two i.e. salat al-Fajr, al-salat al-Wustha and salat al-Isha
(2) The middle salat's time is stipulated by phrase "أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ" of verse 17:78 as the word "الوسطى" itself is inter-related to time of "the noon (الظهيرة)"

Just my brief/quick analysis
Maybe right, maybe wrong!
Thank you.
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

Wakas

You can see some common errors here:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

It can also be used to see some problems for "3 daily" view.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

shukri

Quote from: Wakas on October 08, 2024, 10:08:41 AMYou can see some common errors here:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

It can also be used to see some problems for "3 daily" view.
Yes, I have seen the link
Thank you.

Since i do not know arabic, i cannot give any input based on linguistic aspect
So, i try to analyse through mathematical digits based on keyword "the salat the-wustha" given in verse 2:238
Which stipulated on point  "11) B, C, D" in your article.

In fact, my previous posting on Reply #11 was to give input to your link ... https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
which you stated "Overwhelming evidence from The Quran suggests the regular/timed salat of the mumineen/believers is a minimum of twice daily, with an optional night vigil"

AND my finding, the minimum regular/timed were not of twice daily but thrice daily i.e. salat al-Fajr, al-salat al-Wustha and salat al-Isha.
That's all sir!

God bless you!
Salam!
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: shukri on October 08, 2024, 12:12:44 AMAdd-up digit of verse 2:238
2:238 --> 2+2+3+8 = 15
484 verses digits equal 15

2 4 9  =  15
2 5 8  =  15
2 6 7  =  15
2 7 6  =  15
2 8 5  =  15
2 9 4  =  15
2 1 3 9  =  15
2 1 4 8  =  15
2 1 5 7  =  15
2 1 6 6  =  15
2 1 7 5  =  15
2 1 8 4  =  15
2 1 9 3  =  15
2 2 2 9  =  15
2 2 3 8  =  15
2 2 4 7  =  15
2 2 5 6  =  15
2 2 6 5  =  15
2 2 7 4  =  15
2 2 8 3  =  15

3 3 9  =  15
3 4 8  =  15
3 5 7  =  15
3 6 6  =  15
3 7 5  =  15
3 8 4  =  15
3 9 3  =  15
3 1 2 9  =  15
3 1 3 8  =  15
3 1 4 7  =  15
3 1 5 6  =  15
3 1 6 5  =  15
3 1 7 4  =  15
3 1 8 3  =  15
3 1 9 2  =  15

4 2 9  =  15
4 3 8  =  15
4 4 7  =  15
4 5 6  =  15
4 6 5  =  15
4 7 4  =  15
4 8 3  =  15
4 9 2  =  15
4 1 1 9  =  15
4 1 2 8  =  15
4 1 3 7  =  15
4 1 4 6  =  15
4 1 5 5  =  15
4 1 6 4  =  15
4 1 7 3  =  15

5 1 9  =  15
5 2 8  =  15
5 3 7  =  15
5 4 6  =  15
5 5 5  =  15
5 6 4  =  15
5 7 3  =  15
5 8 2  =  15
5 9 1  =  15
5 1 0 9  =  15
5 1 1 8  =  15

6 9  =  15
6 1 8  =  15
6 2 7  =  15
6 3 6  =  15
6 4 5  =  15
6 5 4  =  15
6 6 3  =  15
6 7 2  =  15
6 8 1  =  15
6 9 0  =  15
6 1 0 8  =  15
6 1 1 7  =  15
6 1 2 6  =  15
6 1 3 5  =  15
6 1 4 4  =  15
6 1 5 3  =  15
6 1 6 2  =  15

7 8  =  15
7 1 7  =  15
7 2 6  =  15
7 3 5  =  15
7 4 4  =  15
7 5 3  =  15
7 6 2  =  15
7 7 1  =  15
7 8 0  =  15
7 1 0 7  =  15
7 1 1 6  =  15
7 1 2 5  =  15
7 1 3 4  =  15
7 1 4 3  =  15
7 1 5 2  =  15
7 1 6 1  =  15
7 1 7 0  =  15
7 2 0 6  =  15

8 7  =  15
8 1 6  =  15
8 2 5  =  15
8 3 4  =  15
8 4 3  =  15
8 5 2  =  15
8 6 1  =  15
8 7 0  =  15

9 6  =  15
9 1 5  =  15
9 2 4  =  15
9 3 3  =  15
9 4 2  =  15
9 5 1  =  15
9 6 0  =  15
9 1 0 5  =  15
9 1 1 4  =  15
9 1 2 3  =  15

1 0 5 9  =  15
1 0 6 8  =  15
1 0 7 7  =  15
1 0 8 6  =  15
1 0 9 5  =  15
1 1 4 9  =  15
1 1 5 8  =  15
1 1 6 7  =  15
1 1 7 6  =  15
1 1 8 5  =  15
1 1 9 4  =  15
1 2 3 9  =  15
1 2 4 8  =  15
1 2 5 7  =  15
1 2 6 6  =  15
1 2 7 5  =  15
1 2 8 4  =  15
1 2 9 3  =  15
1 3 2 9  =  15
1 3 3 8  =  15
1 4 1 9  =  15
1 4 2 8  =  15
1 4 3 7  =  15
1 4 4 6  =  15
1 5 9  =  15
1 5 1 8  =  15
1 5 2 7  =  15
1 5 3 6  =  15
1 5 4 5  =  15
1 5 5 4  =  15
1 5 6 3  =  15
1 5 7 2  =  15
1 5 8 1  =  15
1 5 9 0  =  15
1 6 8  =  15
1 6 1 7  =  15
1 6 2 6  =  15
1 6 3 5  =  15
1 6 4 4  =  15
1 6 5 3  =  15
1 6 6 2  =  15
1 6 7 1  =  15
1 6 8 0  =  15
1 6 1 0 7  =  15
1 6 1 1 6  =  15
1 6 1 2 5  =  15
1 7 7  =  15
1 7 1 6  =  15
1 7 2 5  =  15
1 7 3 4  =  15
1 7 4 3  =  15
1 7 5 2  =  15
1 7 6 1  =  15
1 7 7 0  =  15
1 7 1 0 6  =  15
1 8 6  =  15
1 8 1 5  =  15
1 8 2 4  =  15
1 8 3 3  =  15
1 8 4 2  =  15
1 8 5 1  =  15
1 8 6 0  =  15
1 8 1 0 5  =  15
1 9 5  =  15
1 9 1 4  =  15
1 9 2 3  =  15
1 9 3 2  =  15
1 9 4 1  =  15
1 9 5 0  =  15

2 0 4 9  =  15
2 0 5 8  =  15
2 0 6 7  =  15
2 0 7 6  =  15
2 0 8 5  =  15
2 0 9 4  =  15
2 1 3 9  =  15
2 1 4 8  =  15
2 1 5 7  =  15
2 1 6 6  =  15
2 1 7 5  =  15
2 1 8 4  =  15
2 1 9 3  =  15
2 2 2 9  =  15
2 2 3 8  =  15
2 2 4 7  =  15
2 2 5 6  =  15
2 2 6 5  =  15
2 2 7 4  =  15
2 3 1 9  =  15
2 3 2 8  =  15
2 3 3 7  =  15
2 3 4 6  =  15
2 3 5 5  =  15
2 3 6 4  =  15
2 3 7 3  =  15
2 3 8 2  =  15
2 3 9 1  =  15
2 3 1 0 9  =  15
2 3 1 1 8  =  15
2 4 9  =  15
2 4 1 8  =  15
2 4 2 7  =  15
2 4 3 6  =  15
2 4 4 5  =  15
2 4 5 4  =  15
2 4 6 3  =  15
2 5 8  =  15
2 5 1 7  =  15
2 5 2 6  =  15
2 5 3 5  =  15
2 5 4 4  =  15
2 5 5 3  =  15
2 5 6 2  =  15
2 5 7 1  =  15
2 6 7  =  15
2 6 1 6  =  15
2 6 2 5  =  15
2 6 3 4  =  15
2 6 4 3  =  15
2 6 5 2  =  15
2 6 6 1  =  15
2 6 7 0  =  15
2 6 1 0 6  =  15
2 6 1 1 5  =  15
2 6 1 2 4  =  15
2 6 1 3 3  =  15
2 6 1 4 2  =  15
2 6 1 5 1  =  15
2 6 1 6 0  =  15
2 6 2 0 5  =  15
2 6 2 1 4  =  15
2 6 2 2 3  =  15
2 7 6  =  15
2 7 1 5  =  15
2 7 2 4  =  15
2 7 3 3  =  15
2 7 4 2  =  15
2 7 5 1  =  15
2 7 6 0  =  15
2 8 5  =  15
2 8 1 4  =  15
2 8 2 3  =  15
2 8 3 2  =  15
2 8 4 1  =  15
2 8 5 0  =  15
2 9 4  =  15
2 9 1 3  =  15
2 9 2 2  =  15
2 9 3 1  =  15
2 9 4 0  =  15

3 0 3 9  =  15
3 0 4 8  =  15
3 0 5 7  =  15
3 1 2 9  =  15
3 2 1 9  =  15
3 2 2 8  =  15
3 3 9  =  15
3 3 1 8  =  15
3 3 2 7  =  15
3 3 3 6  =  15
3 3 4 5  =  15
3 3 5 4  =  15
3 3 6 3  =  15
3 3 7 2  =  15
3 4 8  =  15
3 4 1 7  =  15
3 4 2 6  =  15
3 4 3 5  =  15
3 4 4 4  =  15
3 4 5 3  =  15
3 5 7  =  15
3 5 1 6  =  15
3 5 2 5  =  15
3 5 3 4  =  15
3 5 4 3  =  15
3 6 6  =  15
3 6 1 5  =  15
3 6 2 4  =  15
3 6 3 3  =  15
3 6 4 2  =  15
3 6 5 1  =  15
3 6 6 0  =  15
3 7 5  =  15
3 7 1 4  =  15
3 7 2 3  =  15
3 7 3 2  =  15
3 7 4 1  =  15
3 7 5 0  =  15
3 7 1 0 4  =  15
3 7 1 1 3  =  15
3 7 1 2 2  =  15
3 7 1 3 1  =  15
3 7 1 4 0  =  15
3 8 4  =  15
3 8 1 3  =  15
3 8 2 2  =  15
3 8 3 1  =  15
3 8 4 0  =  15
3 9 3  =  15
3 9 1 2  =  15
3 9 2 1  =  15
3 9 3 0  =  15

4 0 2 9  =  15
4 0 3 8  =  15
4 0 4 7  =  15
4 0 5 6  =  15
4 0 6 5  =  15
4 0 7 4  =  15
4 0 8 3  =  15
4 1 1 9  =  15
4 1 2 8  =  15
4 1 3 7  =  15
4 1 4 6  =  15
4 2 9  =  15
4 2 1 8  =  15
4 2 2 7  =  15
4 2 3 6  =  15
4 2 4 5  =  15
4 3 8  =  15
4 3 1 7  =  15
4 3 2 6  =  15
4 3 3 5  =  15
4 3 4 4  =  15
4 3 5 3  =  15
4 3 6 2  =  15
4 3 7 1  =  15
4 3 8 0  =  15
4 4 7  =  15
4 4 1 6  =  15
4 4 2 5  =  15
4 4 3 4  =  15
4 4 4 3  =  15
4 4 5 2  =  15
4 5 6  =  15
4 5 1 5  =  15
4 5 2 4  =  15
4 5 3 3  =  15
4 6 5  =  15
4 6 1 4  =  15
4 6 2 3  =  15
4 6 3 2  =  15
4 7 4  =  15
4 7 1 3  =  15
4 7 2 2  =  15
4 7 3 1  =  15
4 8 3  =  15
4 8 1 2  =  15
4 8 2 1  =  15
4 9 2  =  15
4 9 1 1  =  15

5 0 1 9  =  15
5 0 2 8  =  15
5 0 3 7  =  15
5 1 9  =  15
5 1 1 8  =  15
5 1 2 7  =  15
5 1 3 6  =  15
5 1 4 5  =  15
5 1 5 4  =  15
5 2 8  =  15
5 2 1 7  =  15
5 2 2 6  =  15
5 2 3 5  =  15
5 2 4 4  =  15
5 3 7  =  15
5 3 1 6  =  15
5 3 2 5  =  15
5 3 3 4  =  15
5 3 4 3  =  15
5 3 5 2  =  15
5 3 6 1  =  15
5 4 6  =  15
5 4 1 5  =  15
5 4 2 4  =  15
5 4 3 3  =  15
5 4 4 2  =  15
5 4 5 1  =  15
5 5 5  =  15
5 5 1 4  =  15
5 5 2 3  =  15
5 5 3 2  =  15
5 5 4 1  =  15
5 5 5 0  =  15
5 6 4  =  15
5 6 1 3  =  15
5 6 2 2  =  15
5 6 3 1  =  15
5 6 4 0  =  15
5 7 3  =  15
5 7 1 2  =  15
5 7 2 1  =  15
5 8 2  =  15
5 8 1 1  =  15
5 8 2 0  =  15
5 9 1  =  15
5 9 1 0  =  15

6 0 9  =  15
6 1 8  =  15
6 2 7  =  15
6 3 6  =  15
6 4 5  =  15
6 4 1 4  =  15
6 5 4  =  15
6 6 3  =  15
6 6 1 2  =  15
6 7 2  =  15
6 7 1 1  =  15
6 7 2 0  =  15
6 8 1  =  15
6 8 1 0  =  15
6 9 0  =  15

7 0 8  =  15
7 0 1 7  =  15
7 0 2 6  =  15
7 0 3 5  =  15
7 0 4 4  =  15
7 1 7  =  15
7 1 1 6  =  15
7 1 2 5  =  15
7 2 6  =  15
7 2 1 5  =  15
7 2 2 4  =  15
7 3 5  =  15
7 3 1 4  =  15
7 4 4  =  15
7 4 1 3  =  15
7 4 2 2  =  15
7 4 3 1  =  15
7 4 4 0  =  15
7 5 3  =  15
7 5 1 2  =  15
7 5 2 1  =  15
7 5 3 0  =  15
7 6 2  =  15
7 6 1 1  =  15
7 6 2 0  =  15
7 7 1  =  15
7 7 1 0  =  15

8 0 7  =  15
8 0 1 6  =  15
8 0 2 5  =  15
8 0 3 4  =  15
8 1 6  =  15
8 1 1 5  =  15
8 1 2 4  =  15
8 2 5  =  15
8 2 1 4  =  15
8 3 4  =  15
8 3 1 3  =  15
8 3 2 2  =  15
8 3 3 1  =  15
8 4 3  =  15
8 4 1 2  =  15
8 4 2 1  =  15
8 5 2  =  15
8 5 1 1  =  15
8 5 2 0  =  15
8 6 1  =  15
8 6 1 0  =  15

9 0 6  =  15
9 0 1 5  =  15
9 1 5  =  15
9 1 1 4  =  15
9 2 4  =  15
9 2 1 3  =  15
9 3 3  =  15
9 4 2  =  15
9 5 1  =  15

1 0 7 7  =  15
1 0 9 5  =  15

2:1 الم alif lam meem (with next verse in oldest manuscripts)
such the writ not doubt therein guidance for the righteous

https://corpuscoranicum.de/en/verse-navigator/sura/2/verse/1/manuscripts/116/page/1v


shukri

Brother Wakas,

My posting on reply #13 was not meant to debunk your finding
But to give an input based on mathematical analysis as a comparison

AND the main purpose is just to prove to myself that the number of salat in the Quran is three times per day and my reference article below has merit.
https://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html

Thanks.
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

shukri

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on October 08, 2024, 03:44:26 PM484 verses digits equal 15

2 4 9  =  15
2 5 8  =  15
2 6 7  =  15
2 7 6  =  15
2 8 5  =  15
.
.

Except verse 2:238, which one in the list or in the whole Quran has the words "the middle the salat (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُصطىٰ)"
The "the middle the salat (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ)" is my keyword in my analysis!

Thanks.
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: shukri on October 08, 2024, 07:49:28 PMExcept verse 2:238, which one in the list or in the whole Quran has the words "the middle the salat (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُصطىٰ)"
The "the middle the salat (الصَّلوٰةِ الوُسطىٰ)" is my keyword in my analysis!

Thanks.

So what? Since you're into 19

الصلوه gv 162 (1+6+2 = 9)
and occurs 64 (6+4 = 10) times

Therefore; 9 + 10 = 19

162 64 = 19 x 856 (8+5+6 = 19)

24:58 (2+4+5+8 = 19) where "two" are mentioned

445 (4+4+5 = 13) Şalāati Al-Fajri (صَلوٰةِ الفَجرِ)
534 (5+3+4 = 12) Şalāati Al-`Ishā'i (صَلوٰةِ العِشاءِ)

445 534 13 12 = 19 x 234491648

979 (9+7+9 = 25)

25 979
25 445 534 = 19 x 136732918186

صَلوٰةِ الفَجرِ صَلوٰةِ العِشاءِ

19 letters!
1 90306400 2 130803200 3 90306400 4 1307030011 = 19 x ...
1 90306400 1234 2 130803200 12345 3 90306400 1234 4 1307030011 123456 = 19 x ...

Salaam

shukri

Quote from: Bajram Hoxhaj on October 09, 2024, 12:09:44 AMSo what? Since you're into 19

الصلوه gv 162 (1+6+2 = 9)
and occurs 64 (6+4 = 10) times

Therefore; 9 + 10 = 19

162 64 = 19 x 856 (8+5+6 = 19)

bla bla bla

Show me where in my posting on Reply #11 i used Code 19?

Please sir don't make a comment just for the sake of provocation!
OR Are you a scammer in this forum?

Note:
If you don't answer my question properly on Reply #16 i will not entertain you anymore!
"My Lord, pardon me if I have forgotten or erred"

Bajram Hoxhaj

Quote from: shukri on October 09, 2024, 03:14:51 AMShow me where in my posting on Reply #11 i used Code 19?

Blah Blah Blah

That was to show same nonsense and digit flipping can be used for anything. You can run away like you did on that bismillah thread where I showed you how easy it is and the 1/19 probability. I don't care if you respond or not although don't come here post conjecture and call it analysis. :nope: