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65:4 tense child marriage/pedophilia

Started by Baitachal, May 24, 2017, 06:19:59 PM

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Baitachal

The word "lam yahidna" is in past tense, "women who did not menstruate" , plus the word "yet" is not in the Arabic, hence this proves it's not referring to child marriage.

However the word is also in jussive mood, meaning that she is expecting or it is coming. Hence they say addition of the word 'yet' is justified.
So that is linking to child marriage/pedophilia?


It can also mean that she should be menstruating, that would be a good interpretation as it means she's past the age where a girl starts menstruating and she should already have it (16+). Naturally I like this more than the pedophilic interpretation but does this allign with the verse and the jussive nature of lam yahidna?


:hypno: sickening to think of

I have a question would it make sense if it said "la" or "lan" ?

The thing that is really confusing is the jussive mood because it's hinting that she is expecting it to come. Again this could be a grown woman however it could also be a little girl because "did not" means she never got them rather than she stopped getting them.

I've searched all over for this site for an explanation and while all of you agree that pedophilia is wrong (thankfully) no one has refuted the jussive mood argument implying that her period is yet to come.
Please don't tell me the quran is actually allowing this I hope someone can help.

Baitachal

help  :hypno:



ok https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.550

this explanation makes sense too because it refers to did not menstruate since the time of divorce rather than did not menstruate ever he said i think.


huruf

In modern grammars the present with lam is taken to negate past. However in the Qur'an I doubt that that is so. I can't remember exacty but at some time i did investigate that and I found that that was nto at least always the case. On the other hand many women loose menses thorugh stress, sickness or other circumstances may be for years. It stands to reason, unless somebody is sick of mind that it is to those women it must refer because if it only referred to children who had not YET menstruated, then why not talk about those women who indeed loose menses? What about them.

Also, mood or no mood, past or not past if indeed it is past so what, who have not menstruated previous to that point for whatever reason, may be they have been menstruating for years, but not in the last few months, what do you put it in the present, what present? What does it mean they are not menstruating now. Women spend most of the time without mesntruating.

The whole thing is a joke, and also the fact that they insert the YET makes it clear they are not translating but putting their own thoughts in it.

On the other hand it is very typical, the insertion of those little words the Qur'an misses, because it must have been written by an idiot , and that the translators, generously gives us to that we get their point.

However, whens omething is tob e understood, they e?refuse like hell that it be understood in spite of it being the Qur'anic usage and there having in itseveral instances of it.

The problem with most of these shocking things is not in the text but in the readers already indoctrinadted to extract this, but not that. And forget that humans have a head and within it, a brain, and also even a heart and also something as elusive as common sense. To read the Qur'an you must aboslutely drop common sense.The Qur'an is some extraterrestrial thing. And we must also forget that aya where we are instructed to put the best meaning, or construction on what we read in the Qur'an. So for those for whomthe "have not yet menstruated" is the best meaning, ?Congratulations! you have earned the great price of getting to marry 72 children in thsi life and in the other...

Salaam

Wakas

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

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reel

According to God in Quran,

Marriage suitability= ability to judge between right and wrong/maturity.

Marriage is a serious matter as per 4:21.

Besides, God

shows distinction between women and children in 4:75    

tells us women can't be inherited without their will in 4:19

confirms human life has 3 stages with "a child; then lets you reach your maturity, then lets you become old" in 40:67

Thus, there is no way a child can be married.


QuoteHowever the word is also in jussive mood, meaning that she is expecting or it is coming. Hence they say addition of the word 'yet' is justified.
So that is linking to child marriage/pedophilia?


It can also mean that she should be menstruating, that would be a good interpretation as it means she's past the age where a girl starts menstruating and she should already have it (16+). Naturally I like this more than the pedophilic interpretation but does this allign with the verse and the jussive nature of lam yahidna?

The verse has nothing to do with girl's age of marriage. It is about perimenopause. Women's biology:

QuoteIn later perimenopause, you may skip a period entirely, only to have it followed by an especially heavy one. Occasionally, menstrual periods will be skipped for several months, then return as regular as clockwork.
http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/health-info/what-to-expect-perimenopause/
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Baitachal

Quote from: Wakas on May 25, 2017, 04:57:41 AM
See:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2065-4%20FM3.htm
and
http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm (pay attention to bold and underlined part)

That's exactly where my confusion is coming from because the author says her period is yet to come or albeit it's coming because of the jussive mood.

huruf

Lam does not necessarily negate the past in the Qur'an, I think it negatessimply.

Take sura al ikhlas

Lam yalid we lam yulad
wa lam yakullahu kufwan ahad.


قُلْ هُوَ اللَّـهُ أَحَدٌ ﴿١﴾ اللَّـهُ الصَّمَدُ ﴿٢﴾ لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ ﴿٣﴾ وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ ﴿٤﴾

SAY: "He is the One God: (1) "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being. (2) "He begets not, and neither is He begotten; (3) "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him. (4)


As you see all is lam and all is translated in the present. So it may be true en present grammars that lam negates de past. But not in the Qur'an, even if we wanted to say that the first negations are past, say He was no begotten and He did not beget, the last one has to be present, or does He now have a partner.

Lam necessarily imposes on the sentence the jussive mood. It goes with it, we do not need to search for fantasy because of that, Lam = jussive.

But as in sura Al ikhlas as in many other instances, we can verify that the past thing does not fit.  In Qur'anic use, lam clearly negates the present.

Those whodo not menstruate.

Of course such a statement can only be made after the time when they should have been menstruating has past, and in that sense it would be past, otherwise no need to say anything. It is obvious that women for most of the time are not menstruating, because that happens only about several days every 28 days and you can only say it when the usual time within those 28 days has passed. If not, if those days she happen to have the menses, you cannot say that she is not menstruating for the nest 24 days, because she may not be menstruates those twnty four days by she has mentruated when it was the time.

In fact for anybody who is not an extraterrestrial and lives in the same earth as most of us, the thing is not complicated at all, plain common sense. We can reason it out through grammar an checking with the Qura'nic text itself, but if we do need to do that, that does not say much about our brains and our mental state.

Only obssessed and emotionally ans sociallywrecked minds can come up with such formidable nonsense.

Salaam


Baitachal


Baitachal

I've searched all over the Internet and while they're many claims that make sense saying this refers to women with irregular stops. but no one can disprove that this also  means a young girl (because of the jussive meaning that it intends!!). Does this jussive term apply always?

reel

Quote from: Baitachal on May 26, 2017, 12:51:28 AM
I've searched all over the Internet and while they're many claims that make sense saying this refers to women with irregular stops. but no one can disprove that this also  means a young girl (because of the jussive meaning that it intends!!). Does this jussive term apply always?

No, no, it isn't about just any irregular stops. These are the women in their 40s 50s and 60s. We can also argue for the Quranic common law/resemblance. There has to be a verse which must show that a man married a female child and God is completely okay with it. Tell the sects to bring it. Only then we can accept beyond  reasonable doubt that such marriage is approved.

Go to this link: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609108.msg400433#msg400433
Some Quran follower (seems to be a sectarian inside) tried to justify child marriage. He discontinued the debate when dissected verses about women were shown to him. I asked him questions too. He just didn't come to thread after this.

"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj