If you also still believe in ritual salat...

[Sarah]

Peace

I know some people do not interpret salat as ritual prayer but I am convinced that it is ritual prayer.

However, I find it really hard to pray at work because I don't wear the hijab and obviously as Quran alone Muslims, we pray differently. The thing about my workplace is there's no prayer room so if you pray, your co-workers will most likely see you praying. A lot of my co-workers happen to be traditional Muslims. It's so awkward! I don't pray at work, only at home. I feel guilty about this because I miss prayers because of it. Can I not just pray in my head? I've also thought about wearing a headscarf whilst praying to avoid criticism but wouldn't that be people-pleasing? Is it okay to do this to avoid judgment?

Do you pray at work? How do you deal with this situation?

[Fusion]

Peace

I know some people do not interpret salat as ritual prayer but I am convinced that it is ritual prayer.

However, I find it really hard to pray at work because I don't wear the hijab and obviously as Quran alone Muslims, we pray differently. The thing about my workplace is there's no prayer room so if you pray, your co-workers will most likely see you praying. A lot of my co-workers happen to be traditional Muslims. It's so awkward! I don't pray at work, only at home. I feel guilty about this because I miss prayers because of it. Can I not just pray in my head? I've also thought about wearing a headscarf whilst praying to avoid criticism but wouldn't that be people-pleasing? Is it okay to do this to avoid judgment?

Do you pray at work? How do you deal with this situation?

Not going into the debate of salat meaning and all that. The ritual prayer is prescribed at specific times (there is a start and end time for each prayer) and has specific body movements (ruku sujod qayam which is also mention in Quran), hence I dont think praying in head will counter for that. My own opinion though. In you case if you are surrounded by muslims people then there should not be an issue of just cover your head and pray, dont believe thats people pleasing but perhaps to please God and maybe one day you will start to wear headscarf.
cheers

[jkhan]

Peace

I know some people do not interpret salat as ritual prayer but I am convinced that it is ritual prayer.

However, I find it really hard to pray at work because I don't wear the hijab and obviously as Quran alone Muslims, we pray differently. The thing about my workplace is there's no prayer room so if you pray, your co-workers will most likely see you praying. A lot of my co-workers happen to be traditional Muslims. It's so awkward! I don't pray at work, only at home. I feel guilty about this because I miss prayers because of it. Can I not just pray in my head? I've also thought about wearing a headscarf whilst praying to avoid criticism but wouldn't that be people-pleasing? Is it okay to do this to avoid judgment?

Do you pray at work? How do you deal with this situation?

Peace.. Sorry about your situation..
In my understanding of Quran..  We should not stress ourselves for ritual matters.. Gof has given a us a comprehensive book in order for us to do strengthen our faith.. Salat in Quran 99% is commitment / morals ethics.. But ritual Salat (prayera)  that means remembering God  at specified times most probably 3 times (my view)  is not something to neglect either.. But physicall able standing position.. Other than that no other physical positions unless one get the meaning of Ruku and sujud as physical portion instead if their true meaning..

I don't know how you perform.. But it is still possible evwn how many people surrounded you.. I lost my job but while I was working in my company I used to pray standing during half an hour lunch break..  I stand underneath a shadful tree and I wear my headset letting all othera to know that I am on a call during break.. But I was praying.. If salat was physically practiced like conventional Muslims I doubt I would have ever done in front of those full of racist people who always called me terrorist community..  Coz mostly they consider those who have muslim names as an ally of some terrorist.. I went through hard time there.. Even when I lost my job I was not even given my dues.. Not even allowed to go and ask.. Bad experience in life while I was in that airport.. Anyways.. I am happy I am not there.. God in sha Allah open a way for me.. Note: always some good people every where. So did threre..
So Sarah.. If you like you can do same like me head phone and mobile in hand and acting as in a call but remembering God on fixed time.. Even after office Isha I I pray in train fully crowded.. I wear my headset and with light sound I pray God.. With sound of train no one notices.. So no excuses.. If you have lunch time you can find a way...  But if you pray conventionally I doubt you would be comfortable doing so.. But you are living in free country tey not like mine perhaps you can try...

But be committed in life that is sala IN every action of daily life so you can bring forth purification in life (zakah).. 
Thanks

[good logic]

Hi Sarah.

Your friend good logic  still believes in all sorts of good things  and nonsense depending on different views of people and different interpretations of Qoran and other normal life things.
I do rituals for my spiritual self
I also do rituals that have nothing to do with Qoran or GOD. I copied them from your fellow humans , experts in certain subjects, and I still practice them because they benefit me. Here are the rituals I do:
- Running some distance every day.
- Going to the gym at least once a week.
-Exercises/ dance movements at home .
- Bathing /washing daily.
- Meditation and reading .
- Connecting to GOD daily.
- playing football/ playing games with family and friends.
- Celebrating/inviting family and friends for a meal  at certain birthdays/celebration days...etc.
-...etc the list is endless.

Now , an  important question:
How do I know that all these are good for me?
I could list many benefits, but for me the simple answer is I want to do them and I enjoy doing them.. I am not harming any one and I am not forcing any one to do the same things . Those involved do them with me because they also want to and they also enjoy doing them.

As far as I know and  concerned, they do not break any good and reasonable rules of GOD or of human systems.

So you believe in the Salat ritual, then do it and enjoy doing it. Do not force yourself to do something you find hard  if you do not see the benefit or sense in it.

Of course there are times when we are very ill, very busy and cannot  do rituals physically  Or if they start harming us or our body.

Enjoy your rituals and yes if you are ill or busy why not do your Salat in your head? Qoran has a lot of common sense to me and GOD wants ease for us not hardship.
May be my rituals are nonsense and useless to some, but I want to do them and I enjoy doing them. I also know, my instinct tells, me I am benefitting from my Salat, my heath and wellbeing tell me I am benefitting from my other rituals.
GOD bless you sister.
Peace.

[jkhan]

Hi Sarah.

Your friend good logic  still believes in all sorts of good things  and nonsense depending on different views of people and different interpretations of Qoran and other normal life things.
I do rituals for my spiritual self
I also do rituals that have nothing to do with Qoran or GOD. I copied them from your fellow humans , experts in certain subjects, and I still practice them because they benefit me. Here are the rituals I do:
- Running some distance every day.
- Going to the gym at least once a week.
-Exercises/ dance movements at home .
- Bathing /washing daily.
- Meditation and reading .
- Connecting to GOD daily.
- playing football/ playing games with family and friends.
- Celebrating/inviting family and friends for a meal  at certain birthdays/celebration days...etc.
-...etc the list is endless.

Now , an  important question:
How do I know that all these are good for me?
I could list many benefits, but for me the simple answer is I want to do them and I enjoy doing them.. I am not harming any one and I am not forcing any one to do the same things . Those involved do them with me because they also want to and they also enjoy doing them.

As far as I know and  concerned, they do not break any good and reasonable rules of GOD or of human systems.

So you believe in the Salat ritual, then do it and enjoy doing it. Do not force yourself to do something you find hard  if you do not see the benefit or sense in it.

Of course there are times when we are very ill, very busy and cannot  do rituals physically  Or if they start harming us or our body.

Enjoy your rituals and yes if you are ill or busy why not do your Salat in your head? Qoran has a lot of common sense to me and GOD wants ease for us not hardship.
May be my rituals are nonsense and useless to some, but I want to do them and I enjoy doing them. I also know, my instinct tells, me I am benefitting from my Salat, my heath and wellbeing tell me I am benefitting from my other rituals.
GOD bless you sister.
Peace.

Peace.. brother GL..

Well... Yes rituals can make you pleased like many people all over the world regardless of what faith they have what religion they practice..  First of all everyone who practice rituals with the hope of positive energy within themselves.. But rituals has no much importance in Quran's point of view... That's my understanding...  You may say wait a minute.. I can bring evidences...  Well.. That's understandable...  Understanding of Quran of every individual  may differ...

Rituals as GL Saya bring tanqulity...  For example when I see those lined up monks in Tibet or Nepal I feel like they are meditating on such a superb way and it really attracting others.. Coz they are performing thoae rituals with pleasure but they don't even believe in God and they reject God according what they have been taught.. Or else Christmas is not Christmas if not in December and on top of that if there is no Christmas Tree with decoration all over then it is not Christmas... So retuals play a big role in everyone's life and everyone trying their level best to perform rituals to the extent teaching others how to perform them in right way...

Well liat goes on...

But God is not bothered about rituals... He wants us to believe in Him and do righteous  good deeds.. These goods are life and ita ethics... Rituals of any nature can make people happy coz rituals are interesting and calm but it doesn't mean it has value with God...
When I was in my early teens, I was used to go near by masjid,  and when I pray when my forehead not rightly touch the floor after salat some elders call me and warn of correct and they even told me my all fingers of foot not bent properly while on sujud etc.. So they love rituals and they want othera also perform in the way they do... But these are meaningless in the sight of God compared to real belief of God and real commitment life and how one purifies his or her life.. Not only salat conventional rituals but all rituals on the name of Islam may give peace to people who practice them coz they love it.. Similarly other religions rituals they make it perfect so retuals and tradition and culture continues..
However one's tranquility in life and pleasure by doing rituals is not significant with the sight of God.. But how he lived his life..  Did he obey God or disobey and was he commited in life and reformed his soul thus purified..

 

[The Middle Path]

Peace

I know some people do not interpret salat as ritual prayer but I am convinced that it is ritual prayer.

Sarah, I would appreciate if you could answer these questions.

How is your ritual prayer different than traditional muslims?
What evidence convinces you that Salat is ritual prayer?
How many times do you believe someone who follows the quran should pray?
Also, what is the difference between dua and Salat according to the quran?

Can I not just pray in my head? I've also thought about wearing a headscarf whilst praying to avoid criticism but wouldn't that be people-pleasing? Is it okay to do this to avoid judgment?

In verse 17:110 the Quran suggests that you should not perform your Salat with a loud voice nor a quiet voice (namely in your head). It seems that you would like to wear a headscarf in order to blend in. Wearing a headscarf is not a tenet of the quran. But wearing a headscarf is not incompatible with the quran neither. Thus, you can wear it if you like. It is okay to adapt oneself to circumstances as long as one does not break the principles of the Quran.

Do you pray at work? How do you deal with this situation?

My prayers and not restricted to place. I deal with this situation according to the Quran.

[Fusion]

Hi Folks,
I need some clarification on the concept of rituals being mentioned in the replies of Good logic and Jkhan. Please clarify further.

5:6 Arabic word Salat is used in the Quran text below.
O believers! When you rise up for prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, wipe your heads, and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of ˹full˺ impurity,1 then take a full bath. But if you are ill, on a journey, or have relieved yourselves, or have been intimate with your wives and cannot find water, then purify yourselves with clean earth by wiping your faces and hands.2 It is not Allah’s Will to burden you, but to purify you and complete His favour upon you, so perhaps you will be grateful.

Indeed, as-Safa and al-Marwah are among the symbols of Allah. So whoever makes Hajj to the House or performs 'umrah - there is no blame upon him for walking between them. And whoever volunteers good - then indeed, Allah is appreciative and Knowing. (2:158)

They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed. (2:189)

And complete the Hajj and Umrah for Allah. But if you are prevented, then [offer] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head [making shaving necessary must offer] a ransom of fasting [three days] or charity or sacrifice. And when you are secure, then whoever performs 'umrah [during the Hajj months] followed by Hajj [offers] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find [or afford such an animal] - then a fast of three days during Hajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days]. This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Haram. And fear Allah and know that Allah is severe in penalty. (2:196)

And when you have completed your rites, remember Allah like your [previous] remembrance of your fathers or with [much] greater remembrance. And among the people is he who says, "Our Lord, give us in this world," and he will have in the Hereafter no share. (2:200)

And remember Allah during [specific] numbered days. Then whoever hastens [his departure] in two days - there is no sin upon him, and whoever delays [until the third] - there is no sin upon him - for him who fears Allah. And fear Allah and know that unto Him you will be gathered. (2:203)

etc.

My point is Quran does clearly talks about rituals. Especially the verse 5:6 is talking about cleaning yourself before "salat" and yet we say as per Jkhan rituals have no importance according to Quran or they are in general to ways to lead good life and as such. My Question is why do we undermine certain rituals when Quran clearly makes clearly mentioned them in black and white (verse 5:6 to me a clear ritual and otherwise Quran would have just said be clean before come near to salat....).

thanks for your explanation please

[The Middle Path]

Peace Fusion

My Question is why do we undermine certain rituals when Quran clearly makes clearly mentioned them in black and white (verse 5:6 to me a clear ritual and otherwise Quran would have just said be clean before come near to salat....).

Many forum members know that Salat is not a requirement for entering the figurative/allegorical paradise (namely getting rewarded in the next life/afterlife which is on earth as stated by the quran). The requirements for getting rewarded in the next life/afterlife are believing in God and doing good/righteous deeds (see verses 2:62, 5:69, and 6:49). Also, concerning Salat, it consists of giving aid/help.

107:1 Do you notice who rejects the deen?
107:2 It is the one who mistreats the orphan.
107:3 Does not encourage the feeding of the poor.
107:4 So woe to those who observe Salat.
107:5 Who are totally heedless of observing their Salat.
107:6 They only want to be seen.
107:7 They refuse aid.

The verses above clearly show that Salat consists of giving aid/help (such as money or supplies). A ritual prayer which consists of giving aid/help requires more than doing choreographed movements and the recitation of selected verses from the quran. Therefore the meaning of Salat is not limited/restricted to ritual prayers. With that being said, the Quran clearly mentions certain actions that the servants of God are supposed to do, such as practicing Sawm and cleaning themselves before performing Salat. Whether those actions are rituals or not is debatable. The word ritual is derived from the latin word ritualis which pertains to "religious rites." Thus, rituals are related to religions. But islam does not seem to be a religion in the light of the quran. Further, the word deen does not seem to mean religion according to the language of the Quran. The word deen seems to mean system or code of law. For example, Joseph was not allowed to take his brother Benjamin under the deen of the king (see verse 12:76). In verse 12:76, the word deen does not seem to refer to the religion of the king, but it seems to refer to the system or code of law that existed during his time.

[jkhan]

Hi Folks,
I need some clarification on the concept of rituals being mentioned in the replies of Good logic and Jkhan. Please clarify further.

5:6 Arabic word Salat is used in the Quran text below.
O believers! When you rise up for prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, wipe your heads, and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of ˹full˺ impurity,1 then take a full bath. But if you are ill, on a journey, or have relieved yourselves, or have been intimate with your wives and cannot find water, then purify yourselves with clean earth by wiping your faces and hands.2 It is not Allah’s Will to burden you, but to purify you and complete His favour upon you, so perhaps you will be grateful.

Indeed, as-Safa and al-Marwah are among the symbols of Allah. So whoever makes Hajj to the House or performs 'umrah - there is no blame upon him for walking between them. And whoever volunteers good - then indeed, Allah is appreciative and Knowing. (2:158)

They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed. (2:189)

And complete the Hajj and Umrah for Allah. But if you are prevented, then [offer] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head [making shaving necessary must offer] a ransom of fasting [three days] or charity or sacrifice. And when you are secure, then whoever performs 'umrah [during the Hajj months] followed by Hajj [offers] what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find [or afford such an animal] - then a fast of three days during Hajj and of seven when you have returned [home]. Those are ten complete [days]. This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Haram. And fear Allah and know that Allah is severe in penalty. (2:196)

And when you have completed your rites, remember Allah like your [previous] remembrance of your fathers or with [much] greater remembrance. And among the people is he who says, "Our Lord, give us in this world," and he will have in the Hereafter no share. (2:200)

And remember Allah during [specific] numbered days. Then whoever hastens [his departure] in two days - there is no sin upon him, and whoever delays [until the third] - there is no sin upon him - for him who fears Allah. And fear Allah and know that unto Him you will be gathered. (2:203)

etc.

My point is Quran does clearly talks about rituals. Especially the verse 5:6 is talking about cleaning yourself before "salat" and yet we say as per Jkhan rituals have no importance according to Quran or they are in general to ways to lead good life and as such. My Question is why do we undermine certain rituals when Quran clearly makes clearly mentioned them in black and white (verse 5:6 to me a clear ritual and otherwise Quran would have just said be clean before come near to salat....).

thanks for your explanation please

Salam brother Fusion..
Thank you for asking to clarify..
I am not against GL and what he practices..  It's his understanding..

Quran is loud and clear who is successful.. 23:1-10 or 2:177...
First of all get the meaning of ritual right in case complicated. Salat (remembering God is not ritual at all)..
4 steps of purification 4:43 or 5:6 is not ritual either.. They are just cleaning 4 body parts or have a bath.. So simple..

Do practice rituals..  God doesn't mind as long as one doesn't violate any shirk or anything going against God's system.. Suppose every nation has a ritual when it comes to marriage.. God is not against it and will never be.. Whatever steps they follow all their rituals..  But anything against system of God then it is not ritual.. Suppose if man ask for heavy dowry for marriage even it is ritual of a nation it is not allowed to practice.. Violation of Deen..
Same when it comes funeral rituals.. Bury soon or after threw days or keep in cave foe few months then bury or whatever rituals God doesn't mind coz God has not stipulated any conditions.. No significance in these to God.. No one gonna get any benefit from Allah..

Even fasting is not rituals.. Nothing is ritual..

Then let's turn to Haj.. And word manasik...
What is haj...  It won't change God's  command.. God has clearly indicated who are successful in chapter 23:1-10... Haj or fasting not even mentioned in it.. So what is important in Haj..?
Haj was totally connected with every prophetic messenger and delivering and proclaiming what was revealed to him and publicizing to many a people rather than his own community in which debate and converging to certain place is involved thus feeding OR feast is inevitable...
It depends on where those people converged where they do there own manasik (rites most probably).. 
God never commanded to go inbetwen Safa and Marwa but said no blame..  Whatever Safa and Maawa could have been is immaterial..
Rites or rituals won't take us to Janna.. These manasik (rites) differs nation to nation so it has no importance to every nation.. So it cannot be command of God in general to all human. Coz God's command is common to all..
Even God says in haj versea once you have completed your manasik(rites) .. It is clear manasik is ones own willingness and his or her preference.. 
But of God has shown like He has taught us naturally..

Spending hell a lot if time in rituals won't make any part to achieve our ultimate goal..
So I leave you with this verse.. 9:19 "
Have you made the providing of water for the pilgrim and the maintenance of al-Masjid al-haram equal to [the deeds of] one who believes in Allah and the Last Day and strives in the cause of Allah ? They are not equal in the sight of Allah. And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

Importance with God is commitment in life and purifying souls and beyond that is remembering God...
Thank you..

[good logic]

 Me, I worry about my own findings. I do not trust my eyes,ears and brain fully. But GOD is going to hold me responsible for their usage. Therefore I have no option but to use them to the best of my ability and seek help from the one who gave them to me.

Do not trust good logic s faculties . Use your own. Each one will be responsible for using their eyes ears and brain. Each one is only accountable for their own findings/works/...

Now with this in mind ,I will decide what to do and take the consequences for that.  I can do the rituals , works, ...etc that I choose myself for me.

I will share what and why with others but I do not expect them to do what I do.
I believe in GOD and His message and use my own faculties to work out the message.

Having said that, I agree with most of you that works/deeds and behaviour/attitude /intention take priority.

What do I mean by believe in GOD?
Just say/accept that GOD exist? Or act out and heed /follow His commands and instructions in my life?  Value His message and search/study it as well to check and learn howto lead my life?
If on the other hand I do what others do or what they tell me to do, I believe in others in that case. They are using their faculties and I am using theirs not mine.
I know when I die it is too late.

Are they waiting for the angels to come to them, or your Lord, or some physical manifestations of your Lord? The day this happens, no soul will benefit from believing if it did not believe before that, and did not reap the benefits of belief by leading a righteous life.* Say, "Keep on waiting; we too are waiting.".
هَل يَنظُرونَ إِلّا أَن تَأتِيَهُمُ المَلٰئِكَةُ أَو يَأتِىَ رَبُّكَ أَو يَأتِىَ بَعضُ ءايٰتِ رَبِّكَ يَومَ يَأتى بَعضُ ءايٰتِ رَبِّكَ لا يَنفَعُ نَفسًا إيمٰنُها لَم تَكُن ءامَنَت مِن قَبلُ أَو كَسَبَت فى إيمٰنِها خَيرًا قُلِ انتَظِروا إِنّا مُنتَظِرونَ

I also pass on men s religions if you do not mind.

Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with God, then He will inform them of everything they had done.
إِنَّ الَّذينَ فَرَّقوا دينَهُم وَكانوا شِيَعًا لَستَ مِنهُم فى شَىءٍ إِنَّما أَمرُهُم إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِما كانوا يَفعَلونَ
Whoever does a righteous work receives the reward for ten, and the one who commits a sin is requited for only one. No one suffers the slightest injustice.
مَن جاءَ بِالحَسَنَةِ فَلَهُ عَشرُ أَمثالِها وَمَن جاءَ بِالسَّيِّئَةِ فَلا يُجزىٰ إِلّا مِثلَها وَهُم لا يُظلَمونَ

Say, "My Lord has guided me in a straight path - the perfect religion of Abraham, monotheism. He never was an idol worshiper."
قُل إِنَّنى هَدىٰنى رَبّى إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ دينًا قِيَمًا مِلَّةَ إِبرٰهيمَ حَنيفًا وَما كانَ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ
Say, "My Salat), my way of life practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God alone, the Lord of the universe.
قُل إِنَّ صَلاتى وَنُسُكى وَمَحياىَ وَمَماتى لِلَّهِ رَبِّ العٰلَمينَ
"He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and my first priority is to submit."
لا شَريكَ لَهُ وَبِذٰلِكَ أُمِرتُ وَأَنا۠ أَوَّلُ المُسلِمينَ
Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."
قُل أَغَيرَ اللَّهِ أَبغى رَبًّا وَهُوَ رَبُّ كُلِّ شَىءٍ وَلا تَكسِبُ كُلُّ نَفسٍ إِلّا عَلَيها وَلا تَزِرُ وازِرَةٌ وِزرَ أُخرىٰ ثُمَّ إِلىٰ رَبِّكُم مَرجِعُكُم فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِما كُنتُم فيهِ تَختَلِفونَ

I expect sister Sarah and each one to do the same and follow GOD Alone according to your own findings..
GOD bless you all
Peace.