Author Topic: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.  (Read 1067 times)

jzacchio

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I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« on: August 10, 2020, 08:57:46 PM »
Hey everyone! My name is Johnny and I am an evangelical Christian. I'm studying Islam and would love to open a discussion about what you believe about Allah and Jesus. I guess to get this kicked off my first question would be a two fold question: 1) What is your favorite verse in the Qur'an? and 2) Would you consider the Qur'an to be on the same level as Allah? In other words, is the Qur'an worthy of the same level of respect and worship as Allah Himself?

Hoping to learn from you all and hopefully we can have an open minded discussion.

Wakas

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2020, 02:18:03 AM »
peace,
Welcome to the forum.

1)
We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things? [Quran, 41:53]

And do not follow what you have no knowledge of. Truly, the hearing, the sight and the heart - all will be questioned of this. [Quran, 17:36]


2) The Quran is considered the Word of God. No book can command the same level of respect/reverence compared to God.
"Allah" is simply the Arabic for "The God" (Al-ilah). For example Arab Christians often use the word "Allah".
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=13


Jesus is one of the most mentioned people in The Quran. A messenger/prophet who brought the same message of one God and doing good etc.

If you want to learn more about "islam" this is probably one of the most important concepts to understand:
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/more.php
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2020, 05:43:18 AM »
Peace jzacchio.
Welcome.
1-All verses are my favourite,but I can summarise wirth two verses  what Qoran says to me:

A When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.*
وَإِذا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَحدَهُ اشمَأَزَّت قُلوبُ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِالـٔاخِرَةِ وَإِذا ذُكِرَ الَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ إِذا هُم يَستَبشِرونَ-

Simply religions/humans are satisfied with human idols/prophets/wealth....etc.

B- Proclaim: "O My servants who exceeded the limits, never despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, Most Merciful."
قُل يٰعِبادِىَ الَّذينَ أَسرَفوا عَلىٰ أَنفُسِهِم لا تَقنَطوا مِن رَحمَةِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغفِرُ الذُّنوبَ جَميعًا إِنَّهُ هُوَ الغَفورُ الرَّحيمُ

The servants here are all of us humans regardless of status or religion

2- Is Qoran on the same level as Allah? This question for me is like saying   is a message from Allah the same as Allah?
Then the answer becomes obvious. Qoran is a message from GOD/ Allah. Allah/GOD is the most important factor ,and Allah s message is also important for guidance from Allah/GOD like previous messages before Qoran.
Hope this will shed more light on my second answer:
http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/simple-and-universal-message/
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

jzacchio

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2020, 07:12:32 AM »
Thank you so much for answering. I enjoyed reading your responses and your favorite verses in the Qur'an. Thank you for making the distinction between the message from God and God Himself. As Christians, we affirm the same. We believe the Holy Bible to be the direct word of God though written by human authors (2 Timothy 3:16).

I would like to reply directly to "Wakas". Thank you for your response. If you can elaborate more on the person of Jesus for me that would be greatly appreciated. You said that He is the prophet of God who taught about goodness and One God. Can you show me where in the Qur'an it speaks of Jesus saying these things? Are there any particular chapters of the Qur'an that tells the story of Jesus and His mission on earth?

Wakas

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2020, 11:59:59 PM »
Can you confirm you read the link I provided?
This: https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/more.php

You can research every verse where a word occurs using this tool:
http://www.studyquran.org/TopicsIndex.htm

Jesus:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICQ/J.htm

Jesus 2:136, 4:163, 9:30, 9:31, 10:68, 19:30-34, 21:91, 23:50, 33:7, 61:6, 61:14

bears witness on Resurrection Day 4:159
Christians asked not to deify 4:171
creation of 3:45-49, 19:22
disciples 3:52, 61:14
divergent views about 43:65
followers above others on Resurrection day 3:55
healing of blind, lepers, raising the dead 5:110
his holy inspiration 2:87, 2:252, 5:110
his nature is as Adam's 3:59
is the means to know Judgement Day 43:61 (alternate translation)
Jews boast of killing 4:157
not God 5:17, 5:72, 5:116
only an apostle 4:171, 4:172, 5:75, 19:30
only seemed slain and crucified 4:157
resurrected 4:158
resurrection foretold 3:55, 19:33
truth about him will be realized when people die 4:159
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

jzacchio

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2020, 08:03:10 AM »
Thank you again for replying! This is good that you listed the verses. I have looked up these verses about Jesus and I appreciate you doing this.

Yes I confirm that I have read the article above. Very well written. We have very much a common foundation of Monotheism. I believe that as well and stand upon it with all my heart.

I just have a few questions...

First, do you think you can explain to me how this verse that you sighted (See below) affirms that Jesus is not God? I don't see that just from the plain reading.

5:17. They disbelieve those who say, “God is the Christ, the son of Mary.” Say, “Who can prevent God, if He willed, from annihilating the Christ son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth?” To God belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He creates whatever He wills, and God has power over everything.

Also, in the article about misconceptions concerning Islam, it states, "The Quran contains the same truth that was revealed in previous scriptures (e.g. the same message that was given to Abraham, Moses, Jesus and others) and considers itself as the final divine revelation to mankind." Can you please explain to me how the teachings about Jesus in what you call "the gospel" is the same as what has been historically confirmed about the person of Jesus? For example, the Holy Bible is not just a book of teachings about Jesus, but it is an unfolding story about Him told through various historical accounts and eye witnesses. Therefore, the Bible goes on to record the teachings of Jesus from the gospels and in them he affirms this: "I and the Father are ONE." (John 10:30) He will say things like "Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) as you well know, in that last verse, Jesus is referring to a name that was only used of the eternal God. Like the beautiful story (that I do not believe you would deny but correct me if I'm wrong) when God appears to Moses in the burning bush and tells him that His name is "I AM that I AM". It would seem that this statement, that Muslims affirm all the teachings of Jesus and Moses, is contradictory to what has been spoken by these teachers and prophets. Jesus, on multiple historical accounts, claimed to be God. How do you reconcile this?

Wakas

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2020, 10:30:01 AM »
Re: 5:17
The concept of God in most people's mind is a being that cannot be destroyed. I think you know very well what 5:17 says, and in any case we do not just take one verse, we read The Quran as a whole.

You answered your own question. The Bible, according to you, is divinely inspired reports about Jesus, not written by him, approx 40-100 years after him, and not preserved in it's original language. The Quran does not reject everything reported in The Bible.There are plenty of articles discussing what The Bible says and what Jesus is claimed to have said in it, giving conflicting results about whether he is God or not. I have looked into it and I cannot see how one can conclude Jesus is God from it. The Quran's viewpoint of him seems to reconcile well, and one could argue clears up the alleged confusion.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Layth

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2020, 10:34:04 AM »
Dear Johnny,

I’m not sure what it is your trying to reconcile - the Quran is very clear on the blasphemy of ascribing a son to God or that Jesus was God.

Even the Jews are bewildered by this new religion that has been created by Christians which screams in the face of monotheism and the teachings of the prophets.

The trinity is a messy business that requires the recipient to perform mental acrobatics with logic and reason (I and the father are one, but I am the son of man, and I call to my father for help, and I eat and bleed like a man, and the devil tempts me...).

`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

good logic

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2020, 11:55:09 AM »
Peace

JESUS THE MESSIAH.
The reality of who was Jesus?
FIRST:
Torah:(Old testament)

(The following verse is God talking to David about Solomon)” I will be His Father and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. (Chronicles 17:13)

Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which can not be measured or counted. In the place where it is said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living G-d. (Hosea 1:10)

The kings of Israel are referred to as sons of God because they are to be His representatives, ruling in his place on earth over His people.

“I said, You are Elokim; you are all sons of the Most High” (Psalm 82:6 )

We see that Jesus only said a phrase that was commonly said by Jews in his days, and Jesus did not claim to have a monopoly on son-ship with God. We are all God’s children, Jesus is not the only one and never claimed to be the Begotten one.
 
SECOND:

1.If God came down to earth as a man, one would expect that after the end of His life on earth, and upon His return to heaven, He would be One being not two. This is not in agreement with the following verse in the new testament:

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God” #9 (Mark 16:19)

This verse, which speaks about Jesus after he was raised up into heaven, clearly indicates that God and Jesus are not one being, for how can God be sitting on the right hand of Himself?!!

2. “…………and he often withdrew into the wilderness and prayed” #10 (Luke 5:16)

“And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up on a mountain by himself to pray” #11 (Mathew 14:23)

These two verses which speak about Jesus are of great significance. How can Jesus be God if he was praying to God as any other mortal? Who is he praying to?

The Church may well suggest that Jesus was only praying in a symbolic manner so as to teach the people how to conduct prayer. This argument is nevertheless unacceptable because the words “wilderness” and “by himself” indicate that at those specific times, Jesus was all on his own while praying. He could not have been teaching anybody!

THIRD:

Jesus himself admitted, on numerous occasions, that whatever power he had was given to him by God. Consider the following verses:

“I do nothing of myself” #44 (John 8:28)

“I do as the father has commanded me” #45 (John 14:31)

It is quite clear from these verses that Jesus is not speaking about himself. Clearly he is speaking about the Almighty God whom he worships. Beside acknowledging God’s authority, and after performing such miracles, Jesus often prayed and thanked God for giving him such powers. In John’s gospel, and after raising Lazarus, Jesus said:

“Father I thank you that you have heard me, and I know that you always hear me.” #46 (John 11:41-42)

If Jesus is God, who is he thanking?

FOURTH:

Did Jesus make statements regarding his status, the words, the will and the power he used ? Let us find out.

WORDS

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

Joh 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Joh 12:49 “For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

WILL

Joh 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work.

Joh 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Lu 22:42 saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”

POWER

Joh 5:30 “I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

KNOWLEDGE

Mr 13:32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mt 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

Joh 7:16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;

STATUS

Mt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mr 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

8:50 “And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.

Peace be upon Jesus, he was a prophet,a  messenger of GOD and the Messiah.

GOD bless .
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

tutti_frutti

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Re: I would love to know more about Islam and the prophet Jesus.
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2020, 12:42:23 PM »
salam

the transgression of saying jesus son ... is a lie that the devil said and humans and jinn fell for it

surah 72 verses 3 and 4

“and Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord, He has not taken a wife nor a son

and the foolish one among us used to say lies about The God”

the foolish one is the foolish one amonsgt the jinn and i understand it is the devil

also, amongst many inconsistencies i can endlessly go on about in the bible as well as about “trinity”, one of them is that the bible mentions satan tempts jesus ... so how can one say jesus to be the son ... or is the ... if he is tempted by the devil and the devil even tells him that he will give him the kingdoms of earth :s ... does not The God already own everything?

all existence belongs to The God .. The ONLY God

the devil owns nothing

please ponder well as it is a big transgression to say jesus son ...

there is One God and that is it :)

we do not worship the Quran .. the Quran is the final message from The God and a correction of the previous scriptures as they have been altered ... and it is a guide and mercy as well as a warning

peace :)