Author Topic: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)  (Read 468 times)

Mazhar

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 11:58:59 AM »
Aslm  TellMeTheTruth,

question mark in my head .....

بِاسْمِ = Bism or Bi ism

بِسْمِ = Bism

Please study about it in detail. Allah willing it will help

Ayah 1:1

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 05:19:05 PM »
Salam Jkhan!

You have raised questions for my future articles.
Why do you understand that Mohammad was the only prophet for ARABS? Arabs called themselves from the progeny of the prophet Ismail. Wasn't Ismail a prophet [19:54]? Didn't he live near the "Baytika Al-Muharram" [14:37]? Didn't he built 'The Bayt' with his father Ibrahim [2:127]? Where in the Quran, Allah has addressed to "Bani Ismail" or said "Oh Arabs!" Please dig the Quran and share your findings.

Secondly, do you consider each and every sentence in Quran as an Ayah/Sign/Qawl of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala?
See the below Ayah for example:
٢٨_٣٨   وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُم مِّنْ إِلَٰهٍ غَيْرِى فَأَوْقِدْ لِى يَٰهَٰمَٰنُ عَلَى ٱلطِّينِ فَٱجْعَل لِّى صَرْحًۭا لَّعَلِّىٓ أَطَّلِعُ إِلَىٰٓ إِلَٰهِ مُوسَىٰ وَإِنِّى لَأَظُنُّهُۥ مِنَ ٱلْكَٰذِبِينَ
028:038 And Pharaoh said: "O chiefs! I know not that ye have a god other than me, so kindle for me (a fire), O Haman, to bake the mud; and set up for me a lofty tower in order that I may survey the god of Moses; and lo! I deem him of the liars." [Pickthal]
How much Thawab would I get by reciting this Ayah for 100,000 times?

"Bismillahi ArRahmani ArRahimi" What did you read? Is it written in Arabic? Who told you that it is an Ayah? Don't you think It is a piece of an Ayah in Surah An-Namal. Here is the whole Ayah:
٢٧_٣٠   إِنَّهُۥ مِن سُلَيْمَٰنَ وَإِنَّهُۥ بِسْمِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
027:030 Lo! it is from Solomon, and lo! it is: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful; [Pickthal]
Where it says that the letter from Suleiman had Bismillah on top/in the begnning?

Sauleiman A.S communicated with Sabaian Queen in a language known to him, her or both of them. I think every nation may have atleast one translator in every era.

Was the language of Allah, Adam, Iblis and Malaika same at the time of Adam's creation? What language was that?
Science says as follows:
For a long time, humans used primitive sounds and gestures as their means of communication. Structured languages were seen in scriptures that were written about 10,000 years ago.

Peace!
Peace TMTT
my knowledge in this topic is very weak...
I said as per my understanding... Why she took only bismillah Rahman Raheem....
Do you say there were prophets who were Arabs?  Got to research... But what I understood is only Mohamed based few verses.. But never researched completely....

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 05:38:23 PM »
@TMTT

Bit opposite view to what you said... " Whole quran is word of God""
But I prefer to say whole Quran is from God and not all words of Quran are God's ....
No need need to dig this topic... Coz it will go off topic... Wince I see verses like God is poor we are rich.... That's not words of God... Words of people quoted by author in the Quran... GOD didn't say it people said...
Sane like a news paper.... You see lots of quotes... But it is not the word of author...
Let's keep it with topic bismillah 

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 09:45:35 PM »
Peace TMTT
my knowledge in this topic is very weak...
I said as per my understanding... Why she took only bismillah Rahman Raheem....
Do you say there were prophets who were Arabs?  Got to research... But what I understood is only Mohamed based few verses.. But never researched completely....
Salam Jkhan!
Simply tell where Ismael A.S who was a Rasool and a Prophet and a son of Ibrahim A.S lived?

To your question in red part above:
My translation; [27:28-30]:
She said, “O chiefs! Indeed a venerable writing is delivered to me. Indeed it is from Suleiman” (Saying) “And indeed it is pleasure of Allah, the Most-Compassionate, and the Most Merciful that not you wish eminence above Me and come to Me in submission/Muslimeen”.

Peace!

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 09:51:48 PM »
@TMTT

Bit opposite view to what you said... " Whole quran is word of God""
But I prefer to say whole Quran is from God and not all words of Quran are God's ....
No need need to dig this topic... Coz it will go off topic... Wince I see verses like God is poor we are rich.... That's not words of God... Words of people quoted by author in the Quran... GOD didn't say it people said...
Sane like a news paper.... You see lots of quotes... But it is not the word of author...
Let's keep it with topic bismillah

Salam Jkhan!

I think here you are contradicting your own previous statement:
Quote
As per my understanding of Quran Mohamed was the only prophet for Arabs...
So bismillah Rahman Raheem is not one of the typical. Same verse in the book of prophet Sulaiman.... He wouldn't have said the same but perhaps in his own language.. Coz God reveals in language of the prophets and their people...
What could that be that he wrote to Sheba saying equivalent to bismillah Rahman Raheem....
It seems like it was the beginning of his letter while sheba read it... It could be in the OR with the name of......  ....... ...... But not Arabic version...
Or was it in Sheba's language

Peace!

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2019, 10:02:04 PM »
Salam Jkhan!
Simply tell where Ismael A.S who was a Rasool and a Prophet and a son of Ibrahim A.S lived?

To your question in red part above:
My translation; [27:28-30]:
She said, “O chiefs! Indeed a venerable writing is delivered to me. Indeed it is from Suleiman” (Saying) “And indeed it is pleasure of Allah, the Most-Compassionate, and the Most Merciful that not you wish eminence above Me and come to Me in submission/Muslimeen”.

Peace!

Peace TMTT
I am afraid to state what's have no knowledge... In fact I have to study and research about Mohamed is the only prophet in Arabic language or for Arabs or there were prophets... But my very light memories say that could be right... But I will in sha Allah come back to you TMTT... but you have brought a very good topic which made me to ponder and research on a matter which I have not touched yet...

BTW.. I don't think there is any proof that Ismail was an Arab or lived in Macca or the sent to a community where Arabs lived... I wonder even Arabs are that old community.... Date back to Ibrahim.... Is Arabic the root of languages at middle east or others... That will solve.. Anyhow let me research...
God guide you brother...

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2019, 10:08:21 PM »
TMTT
I doubled checked.. I still feel when I read Arabic and translation and my own understanding.... Letter from Suleiman starts Bismillah Rahman Raheem.... I don't see any other option...
Do you say letter start with something  else... If so let me know what is it?

TellMeTheTruth

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2019, 01:24:15 AM »
Dear Jkhan!

Can you see that there is إِنَّهُۥ  used twice in 27:29? Isn't it the start of two (02) statements?
There are 19 Ayats, which start with this word: e.g., 16:99, 20:72, 21:110, 23:109, 26:220, 27:30, 37:81, 37:111, 37:132, 56:77, 33:175, and more.

Peace!

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2019, 02:14:40 AM »
Dear Jkhan!

Can you see that there is إِنَّهُۥ  used twice in 27:29? Isn't it the start of two (02) statements?
There are 19 Ayats, which start with this word: e.g., 16:99, 20:72, 21:110, 23:109, 26:220, 27:30, 37:81, 37:111, 37:132, 56:77, 33:175, and more.

Peace!
I will check the verses references you furnished....
But only with the particular  verse... It seems She says Sulaiman letter starts bismillah... Let's see...

jkhan

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Re: Difference between بسم (Bismi) and باسم (Bi-Ismi)
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2019, 02:26:14 AM »
Dear brother TMTT and everyone Peace...

What do you get by below verses... Does it say Arabs were given scriptures before... These verses addressing to the people of Mohamed incontrovertibly... Two groups here are Jews and Christian to whome God revealed Books in their own languages... But for Arabs it seems not till it was revealed to Mohamed who lived not far from these two groups (for me Mohamed was a Nabatean Arab after migration and before also not far)...  Here God refers two groups starting from musa till Isa... But classification of jews and Christian is people choice during that period.
But Ibrahim lived well before musa... If any of the evidence left to call Ibrahim and Ismail were  prophets for Arabs then then the classic evidence could be remnant of Ibrahim's book with the people of Arab in their language .. Specially the ancient Arab Nabatean.. But no such Archealogical remnant left to support... What language Ibrahim Ismail Lot  or ishhaq or yakub or even Yousuf spoke is mystery... But clearly they were not Jews or Christians but it doesn't mean they didn't speak Aramaic or Hebrew any such old languages . They would have or may not.   But we don't find any other older language to Hebrew /Aramaic / Akkadian in that Area amongst Semitic languages.. Arabic is most widely spoken language in that area since many centuries to now.. It shows that Arabic is a very latest language.. Coz what is most spreading is only the latest version and not the oldest version..thats the pattern of the world. But history shows Akkadian is the oldest of the languages of this area though root for all Semitic languages is probably Aramaic/hebrew... Those who are well versed in such will know from where all started... But, definitely not Arabic... Arabic seems very latest language on the region deriving all dialects from Hebrew and Aramaic... God knows best...

6:155 "And this is a blessed Scripture which We have revealed. So follow it and ward off (evil), that ye may find mercy"

6:156 " lest you should say, 'The Book was sent down only upon two parties before us, and we have indeed been heedless of their study'"

6:157 " Or lest ye should say: If the Scripture had been revealed unto us, we surely had been better guided than are they. Now hath there come unto you a clear proof from your Lord, a guidance and mercy; and who doeth greater wrong than he who denieth the revelations of Allah, and turneth away from them? We award unto those who turn away from Our revelations an evil doom because of their aversion."

We can't say that scriptures actually sent to the communities of Jews and Christians of Mohamed time.. Of course not but it was sent many 100s of years back... But still called scriptures sent to two groups among them...coz they are the followers of them.. So it shows Arabs were not sent any such scriptures till Mohamed.. Taking Ibrahim or Ismail as Arab is far from reality... I don't think there were Arabs/arabic language in the time of Ibrahim...

Take look at the below verse.. 29:48
"
Neither did you (O Muhammad SAW) read any book before it (this Quran), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand. In that case, indeed, the followers of falsehood might have doubted."

It doesn't say Mohamed is illiterate but it says He has no such exposure to scriptures...  Neither the scriptures of two groups or of his own ancestors... Nothing in Arabic... This seems the beginning... It was mercy for Arabs and to the world...
God guide us...

This is my understanding to date dear TMTT... Lot to research though...any flaws pls point out....