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can you be friends with non muslims?

Started by kenybanez, April 11, 2014, 05:19:44 PM

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wrkmmn

peace:
peace Muslims:
QuoteThey are not all alike.
         Some of the People of the Book are firmly committed to the truth. They recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of night,
         and remain in the state of prostration before their Lord. They believe in Allah and the Last Day and enjoin righteousness,
         and forbid evil, and they race to pious works.And it is they who are amongst the pious.
         (3.113-114)
If you find this kind of people among the cristians and jews, as soon as you recite to them the quran they will recognize the truth, and: [Quran 5:83] When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.  (17:107-108)(Verily, those who were given knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration. And they say: "Glory be to our Lord! Truly, the promise of our Lord must be fulfilled.'')
28:53 And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe in it. Verily, it is the truth from our Lord. Indeed we have been from before it submitted-ones (Muslims)


as you see, you can never have a true believer jew or cristian friend, for as soon as they hear the Qur'an they will become submited-ones (muslims), and they will recognize submission (slam) as the true name for the religion of God. Because Judaism and Cristianism are but invented meaningless names, for God never in the previous books gives name to His Law/Religion/way. only in Qur'an does God gives name to his religion/law/way and to those who submit to it.

being a jew means that you descent from the tribe of juda (one of the 12 tribes of Israel) but they have made a religion out of it, which they call Judaism (and they even dare to say that Moses was the founder of Judaism) how lost they are.
Cristian means nothing because Jesus never said that he came to abrogate the law of the torah, rather he said that it should be obeyed to the letter.

Peace not so good-logic: 
QuoteDetox the mind from " belonging to any race/ sect/tribe..", love everyone.

Jesus was a true "Muslim", I think?

Matthew 15:24-26 But He answered and said, ?I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.?25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.26 But he answered and said, It is not good to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Qur?n:3:28 LET NOT the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the
believers19 - since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything - unless it be to
protect yourselves against them in this way.20 But God warns you to beware of Him: for with
God is all journeys' end.
3:29 Say: "Whether you conceal what is in your hearts21 or bring it into the open, God knows it: for
He knows all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and God has the power to will
anything."
58:22You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith and supported them with spirit from Him. And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him - those are the party of Allah . Unquestionably, the party of Allah - they are the successful.



may God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.

muslims

Quote from: wrkmmn on April 21, 2014, 08:32:47 PM
peace:
peace Muslims:If you find this kind of people among the cristians and jews, as soon as you recite to them the quran they will recognize the truth, and: [Quran 5:83] When they hear what was revealed to the messenger, you see their eyes flooding with tears as they recognize the truth therein, and they say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so count us among the witnesses.  (17:107-108)(Verily, those who were given knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration. And they say: "Glory be to our Lord! Truly, the promise of our Lord must be fulfilled.'')
28:53 And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe in it. Verily, it is the truth from our Lord. Indeed we have been from before it submitted-ones (Muslims)


as you see, you can never have a true believer jew or cristian friend, for as soon as they hear the Qur'an they will become submited-ones (muslims), and they will recognize submission (slam) as the true name for the religion of God. Because Judaism and Cristianism are but invented meaningless names, for God never in the previous books gives name to His Law/Religion/way. only in Qur'an does God gives name to his religion/law/way and to those who submit to it.

being a jew means that you descent from the tribe of juda (one of the 12 tribes of Israel) but they have made a religion out of it, which they call Judaism (and they even dare to say that Moses was the founder of Judaism) how lost they are.
Cristian means nothing because Jesus never said that he came to abrogate the law of the torah, rather he said that it should be obeyed to the letter.

Yes, I agree . . . they cannot become True Believers and people invented religions (3:67-68), ie. the fallacy of hasty generalization.

and. . . those who are the Disbelievers in the Quran are the "True Shia" (sectarian). . .

         And indeed, among his kind was Abraham,
         وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
         context -> 37:9-87

I believe the actual facts is people are able to enter into heaven even if they don't believe in Allah, ie. the Mutasyaabihat . . .
One can be a Muslim without even becoming a Believer

It is so since the "minimum requirement" of entering into heaven is "submission" (living justly balanced)
not "belief" (bonus but does not guarantee into heaven). . 
reason, refer here and here.

Quote from: muslims on April 05, 2014, 03:05:44 AM
              And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth
              authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it
              So judge between them by what God has sent down
              and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth

              For each of you We have made laws, and a structure
              and if God had willed
              He would have made you all one nation
              but He tests you with what He has given you <- Hablum Minallah
              so strive to do good <- Hablum minannas, this is our job
              To God you will return all of you
              and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute. <- Hablum Minallah. He will inform, not us!
              5:48

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.440

These are only my views.

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

JavaLatte

My personal understanding is that mu'min and muslim should try to be fair toward anyone, and I don't think it's wrong to be friendly toward the rejecter and idolater who also support peace.

However, I think "the true friendship" cannot be built between people who support God and people who against God.

I regard true friendship as the friendship that can last forever.

So, even if they have a very good relationship, I think it will only last on earth when they still alive.


Peace.
[33:72] Verily, We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to bear it and they were afraid of it; but man bear it - verily, he was transgressing, ignorant.

zayd

Salaam.

People have been quoting verses like [3:28] and [58:22] to justify that Muslims are not allowed to have non-Muslim friends, and that we should cut off all relations with them.

In what kind of situation would you refer to someone as an "ally"? If you read surah 60, you will see that the context is war/hostility/persecution.

---

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.

[60:1]
O you who believe, do not take My enemy and your enemy as allies. You extend love to them, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you. They drive you and the messenger out, simply because you believe in God, your Lord. If you are mobilizing to strive in My cause, seeking My blessings, then how can you secretly love them? I am fully aware of everything you conceal and what you declare. And whoever of you does this, then he has gone astray from the right path.

...

[60:7]
Perhaps God will grant compassion between you and those you consider enemies; and God is Capable. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.

[60:8]
God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.

[60:9]
But God does prohibit you regarding those who fought you because of your system, and drove you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out. You shall not ally with them. Those who ally with them, then such are the transgressors.


muslims


I believe the truth is a Muslim cannot be friends with criminals (corrupters and oppressors etc)
and it is not referring to the corrupted definition of "disbeliever" we know today . . .

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

wrkmmn

peace:

the laws of god never change:
[60:8]God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.
In the Torah God teaches to deal with this kind of people in in almost the same way, but strongly warns about getting to close to them so that you do not learns their ways.

[60:9]But God does prohibit you regarding those who fought you because of your system, and drove you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out. You shall not ally with them. Those who ally with them, then such are the transgressors.

In the Torah God teaches that you do not stop until you wipe this people off the face of the earth, and they become only tales.

28:49
Say: "Produce, then, [another] revelation from God which would offer better guidance thaneither of these two49 - [and) I shall follow it, if you speak the truth!"


The problem with you people is that you are resolved to have polytheist friend, and no body will change your mind, for he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way. If you like to have them as friends is becouse you like what they do, therefore you both are the same

think about this old sayings:
HE who walks with wolves to howl he learns.
Tell me with whom you walk and I will tell you who you are.
Proverbs 13:20 He that walks with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.
Psalm 26:4 I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.
Psalm 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
Psalm 5:9 Not a word from their mouth can be trusted; their heart is filled with malice. Their throat is an open grave; with their tongues they tell lies.
Psalm 26:4I do not sit with the deceitful, nor do I associate with hypocrites.
Psalm 26:5I abhor the assembly of evildoers and refuse to sit with the wicked.
Proverbs 1:15 my son, do not go along with them, do not set foot on their paths;
Proverbs 4:14Do not set foot on the path of the wicked or walk in the way of evildoers.
Proverbs 24:1 Do not envy the wicked, do not desire their company;
Jeremiah 15:17I never sat in the company of revelers, never made merry with them; I sat alone because your hand was on me and you had filled me with indignation.

Proverbs 1:22"How long will you who are simple love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?.



I hope not to be doing this:Matthew 7:6 ?Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.



35:8 Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good ? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do.
4:88 What is with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].
[/b]

may God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.

Man of Faith

Please do not bring 60:8 and 60:9 out of context to twist the words that it fits your mind. It talks about oppression and to readily accept them with open arms after what they have done. Would you call all men oppressors?

Evil are their deeds and that is the bad thing. They may lack Faith those who are not believers but everyone is a potential Believer should God want that and if there is good in their hearts. Those slammed by the decree are those who spread mischief and implement unrighteous rules that are unjust and evil, and in the case above evict those who believe for example.
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Jafar

Quote from: Man of Faith on April 23, 2014, 12:33:06 AM
Please do not bring 60:8 and 60:9 out of context to twist the words that it fits your mind. It talks about oppression and to readily accept them with open arms after what they have done. Would you call all men oppressors?

Evil are their deeds and that is the bad thing. They may lack Faith those who are not believers but everyone is a potential Believer should God want that and if there is good in their hearts. Those slammed by the decree are those who spread mischief and implement unrighteous rules that are unjust and evil, and in the case above evict those who believe for example.

Summary:

It's all about deed, deed and deed. It's the DEED/ACTION or in Sanskrit word KARMA that matters. Solomon, David, Jesus, Krishna, Siddharta is in agreement on this one. Anyone can use whatever name they want to call themselves. It doesn't matter when one call him/herself as Honest, what does matter is that he/she should perform honest deed. Thus do not befriend those who are "non-honest" (a.k.a Liars) although they claimed themselves as a member of a religion / sect / group / social identity named "Honest". The same thing with muslim and islam.


Man of Faith

Peace Jafar,

I ought to give you credit for that. It comes down to deeds mainly, but faith in the Almighty force does also seem to be a prerequisite. I have not been able to interpret the decree in any other way. But there is no particular religion but it is the same Almighty force no matter what you happen to "sectarianize" yourself into due to ignorance.

In the context I would say do not befriend criminals; those who spread mischief, much you said already.

And we know what God truly decreed to be upheld as a system of God. I will not repeat it here because I repeat it here and there on the forum.

Be good is an easy summary of what is decreed for you.

QuoteIt's the DEED/ACTION or in Sanskrit word KARMA that matters.

"Amen to that".

God bless you
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

wrkmmn

peace:

QuotePlease do not bring 60:8 and 60:9 out of context to twist the words that it fits your mind. It talks about oppression and to readily accept them with open arms after what they have done. Would you call all men oppressors?

Is the polytheist lovers who are getting 60:8 and 60:9 out of context:

The only way a believer can get close to them is as a Warner, and to preach to them obedience, repentance, and submission to God either through the torah or the Qur'an. Jesus use to sit and talked to money lender and prostitutes, but only to talk to them about repentance and the coming of the kingdom of heaven, and if they rejected he got away from the wicked ones, and he ordered to do the same to his apostles. however, If you hang out with prostitutes, just for fun, is because you like to prostitute yourself with them and their Gods.

QuoteEvil are their deeds and that is the bad thing. They may lack Faith those who are not believers but everyone is a potential Believer should God want that and if there is good in their hearts.
I you go to them to warn and preach submission/islam until they put their hands on their ears and tell you that if you do not stop they will stone you to death, then you are Good. But, if you go to them to prostitute yourself with their gods and their ways, then how twisted is your mind.

QuoteIt's all about deed, deed and deed. It's the DEED/ACTION or in Sanskrit word KARMA that matters. Solomon, David, Jesus, Krishna, Siddharta

I see the conflict between your ideas and mine. I am preaching Submission/obedience to the Creator of All (slm) and you are preaching the teaching of your imaginary Gods of Hinduism and Buddhism. Is it your Goal to turn Muslims into Hindus or Buddhist?. and please do not try to preach them to me, for maybe I know more about Hinduism and Buddhism than yourself.

QuoteIt's all about deed, deed and deed. It's the DEED/ACTION or in Sanskrit word KARMA that matters. Solomon, David, Jesus, Krishna, Siddhartha is in agreement on this one
at least get your knowledge right,  Siddhartha main teaching is not good deeds, but the elimination of suffering through the elimination of desires.


Matthew 15:14Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."
Qur'an25:25-29 25:25And on the Day on which the skies, together with the clouds, shall burst asunder, and the angels are made to descend in a mighty descent - (25:26) on that Day [it will become obvious to all that] true sovereignty belongs to the Most Gracious [alone]: hence, a Day of distress will it be for all who deny the truth, (25:27) and a Day on which the evildoer will bite his hands (in despair], exclaiming: "Oh, would that I had followed the path shown to me by the apostle!21 (25:28) Oh, woe is me! Would that I had not taken so-and-so for a friend! (25:29) Indeed, he led me astray from the remembrance (of God] after it had come unto me!" For (thus it is:] Satan is ever a betrayer of man.22

may God increase my muslim brothers in knowledge, and give us some wisdom, and may he destroy the corrupters.