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Qur'an Verse 4:34 - 'Beat the Wife'? quranverse434

Started by Nabeel, April 04, 2014, 05:32:32 PM

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Nabeel

Quote from: Man of Faith on April 16, 2014, 01:07:57 AMAfter reading Wakas article and checking the word I saw that the word cannot mean leave. It suggests putting something forth towards something else.

What about the Lexicon definitions which provide this meaning? eg. http://www.quranverse434.com/#the-use-of-preposition-an-%D8%B9%D9%86

When you leave someone, you are effectively 'putting them forth'.

Mazhar

QuoteWe?re discussing ḍād rā bā (ض ر ب) not ṣād fā ḥā (ص ف ح); are these same?


صفحا : Verbal noun/gerund is Cognate adverb in the sentence.
A cognate adverb is a gerund with a meaning very similar to a mentioned action.

This adverb is used for one of three purposes:

to explain the manner in which the action takes place.
2  to provide the multitude in which the action takes place.
3  to place emphasis on the action.

A verbal noun denotes action and state only. This cognate adverb denotes avoidance, ignoring, turning away, placing aside.

Would, for reason that you ask to bring other than this Qur'aan, We strike alienating the Memoir's narrative: Qur'aan away from you people, in the manner of avoidance-placing it aside?
Would we strike like this only because that you people are a transgressing nation? [43:05]
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

good logic

Peace Mazhar.

Sometimes the context of the verse dictates the meaning? You can use dictionaries, any source you deem important to explain words ,but if the context does not fit, it is a waste of time.

[43:05] Since the verse means " Original sin" in my opinion? The word "nadrib" means "ignore"?:

43:5
Should we just ignore the fact that you have transgressed the limits?*

أَفَنَضرِبُ عَنكُمُ الذِّكرَ صَفحًا أَن كُنتُم قَومًا مُسرِفينَ

Contrary to common belief, the "Original Sin" was not Adam's violation of God's law when he ate from the forbidden tree. The original sin was our failure to uphold God's absolute authority during the Great Feud. [38:69]

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Mazhar

QuoteSometimes the context of the verse dictates the meaning? You can use dictionaries, any source you deem important to explain words ,but if the context does not fit, it is a waste of time.

Peace,

How you define "context"?
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

good logic

Peace Mazhar.

What I mean is" The context depends on the words used, but words that have "multi-meaning" are troublesome if you do not pick the right one".
I hope that clarifies for you.
With Qoran people "dispute " the right meaning!!! But that is fine, GOD knows that they do?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Mazhar

Quote from: good logic on April 16, 2014, 09:15:50 AM
Peace Mazhar.

What I mean is" The context depends on the words used, but words that have "multi-meaning" are troublesome if you do not pick the right one".
I hope that clarifies for you.
With Qoran people "dispute " the right meaning!!! But that is fine, GOD knows that they do?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Now please revisit your earlier post and tell me what words make you to infer the meanings as "ignore". The co-occuring words will deny even the remotest possibility of using "ignore".
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

good logic

Peace Mazhar.

With all due respect. It makes no difference to you what I say. Your 5506 th post will find another issue and so on...

However for your information, all the words of that verse led me to choose "ignore" for "nadrib".

Now please forgive me if I "ignore" any more issues from yourself, as I have said my piece and will bid you farewell regarding this verse .

Good luck with your choice of meanings and translations .

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Mazhar

Quote from: good logic on April 16, 2014, 12:18:24 PM
Peace Mazhar.

With all due respect. It makes no difference to you what I say. Your 5506 th post will find another issue and so on...

However for your information, all the words of that verse led me to choose "ignore" for "nadrib".

Now please forgive me if I "ignore" any more issues from yourself, as I have said my piece and will bid you farewell regarding this verse .

Good luck with your choice of meanings and translations .

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace,

First you said context does effect the meanings of a word. That is true. But in practice you insist not to bother about the words that co-occur with the word Zrb in the sentence. The preposition "Aenkum" alone suffices to defy your understanding of "ignore". For "ignore" you need not to have an inanimate object. But in the sentence we do have such direct object of the verb.

However, you are at liberty to stick to your stand even without a foundation.
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

Nabeel

I found an article by Edip Yuksel which agrees with the interpretation: 'Separate from them / leave them':

http://www.19.org/452/errors-in-english-translations-of-the-quran/

The translation of the Qur'an titled 'Qur'an: a Reformist Translation' uses the phrase 'Separate from them' in verse 4:34.

I updated the website quranverse434.com to include the above article and translation.

Man of Faith

Peace,

But separate does seem incompatible with the word traditionally inferred to mean beat/strike based on if you take a look at its occurrence in other parts of the book called Qur'an. The only viable compromise is brother Wakas' "put forth" which I interpret to mean something like make her behavior known to people, perhaps so you may get helped with your issues with her and in relation to the next passage.

Have faith
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