The Avoidance of those who Ridicule the faith? Help please :(

[Aryan Warrior]

Peace,

So I am rather confused about this and worried at the same time too.

So it originally started with originally with 5:57:

"O you who believe, do not take as allies those who have taken your system as fun and games from among those who have been given the Scripture before you and the rejecters. And be aware of God if you are believers." (5:57)

The part taken as allies I heard some saying it actually means friendship due to how the people of the book have already been discussed in regards to friendship in 5:51.

Then I saw 6:68.

"And if you encounter those who make fun of Our revelations, then turn away from them until they move on to a different topic; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people." (6:68)

Here it is instead saying that we should leave the company of those who make until they change subjects, which if 5:57 did indeed mean friendship, it would be contradictory as this only seems to forbid being near those who say rude stuff about our faith. Anyone wanna clear this up for me please?

Scariest of all was this one:

"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4:140)

The fact that it states that if we don't move that we are like them bothers me but what does it mean by being like them? As in I am a kaffir even though I am not covering the truth and fully believe?? How about arguing? Can't I simply just tell them to not talk about it as most people will usually just stop at that by saying "please don't talk about that"?

As well what if there is no intention behind their ridicule and making of the faith? for example I being in the film industry might have hear a guy acting out a guy who hates the faith and starts mouthing off the faith.

or how about say on Facebook where you see a post of theirs that has already said such a thing? It was done in the past and I didn't hear it, would that count?

Lastly when stating "your system" does it just directly reference the Quran or does it include God in general as I know enough Atheist who keep calling religion fake and God as being fake or those who say our faith is wrong and theirs is correct? Thus not talking about our faith directly.

Anyways i'm quite scared of this. Please help Thank and PLEASE help

[nevashiva]

I don't see what's wrong with saying you are uncomfortable around that kind of talk and leaving really. But I honestly feel that if someone talks smack about God, and I believe in him as my creator and master, I should of course defend him, lets resort to a simple analogy if someone talks smack about me to my friend, and he just sits there I would feel kind of bad actually...actually I would question the person who claims he is my friend! Much more than the person I know hates my guts. Yes I would think of my friend as a hypocrite he claims something, but doesn't act like it.

It would feel deceptive kind of.
Right or not? (Genuinely asking)

I think it is very peaceful, that God said just leave them get it over with and just walk away till they stop talking about, because indifference shows being inconsiderate, or that it doesn't really bother you that God is being mocked. But walking away demonstrates you can't put up with that kind of statement.

There is many verses about how that if someone disbelieves do not treat them badly, because you taint God's name in the process. Also says if they deal with you in a good way you should deal with them in a good way yourself.

Arguing doesn't mean punching them in the face. Unless they are punching you in the face themselves.

I guess it shows conviction?

I don't know...but I don't think it is a strange commandment, because honestly, there is a certain brand of 'atheists' rather than let's say agnostics, or people who leave faith out of an injury, that just enjoy calling being religious stupid, brainwashed, and idiotic, and are quiet relentless about their 'intelligence superiority' and accusing faith of causing every single distress in the world. Which is quiet hypocritical and naive in my opinion, BUT most sane religious people understand the concept of to each his own, and don't resort to you *are the smart guy who doesn't want to deal the most important question of human life why are we here, why do we die, and what happens.* 

I guess the word is...according to the Qur'an the idea is to make God number 1 in your life. It takes time to understand that...(I believe) so take the time to do that if you want to .

[Aryan Warrior]

I don't see what's wrong with saying you are uncomfortable around that kind of talk and leaving really. But I honestly feel that if someone talks smack about God, and I believe in him as my creator and master, I should of course defend him, lets resort to a simple analogy if someone talks smack about me to my friend, and he just sits there I would feel kind of bad actually...actually I would question the person who claims he is my friend!

Right or not?

I think it is very peaceful, that God said just leave them get it over with and just walk away till they stop talking about, because indifference shows being inconsiderate, or that it doesn't really bother you that God is being mocked.

There is many verses about how that if someone disbelieves do not treat them badly, because you taint God's name in the process. Also says if they deal with you in a good way you should good deal with them in a good way yourself.

Arguing doesn't mean punching them in the face. Unless they are punching you in the face themselves.

I guess it shows conviction?

But the thing is that it only mentions the revelations and not God .
"And if you encounter those who make fun of Our revelations " and
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in" (4:140)

Thus its talking about only the revelations as I see so far, but what I am afraid of is this only talking about the Quranic verses or the previous scriptures too? as many people here try to bash the bible many times as I hear.

My biggest concern is television and other mediums where people might make fun of God and the revelations on there in a fictional sense and that even though its fictional if that still applies O_O 

Or how about mythical movies about some of the Pagan religions which while I take as false if that applies here as the people on screen are taking it as real supposedly thus "rejection" as per 4:140.

and to top that off how about when one hears actors who are acting according to a script that has them ridiculing it because the character in the movie is like that? He doesn't believe his ridicule and has no intention behind it and is only pretending to be that actor on screen? Would I still have to leave his presence!?

Heck many athists might go around just saying "God is fake" and explaining why yet would that fit into such a bill!? They simply are stating their belief there and that isn't referencing to just Islam but every religion, yet I fear just cause of them talking about God that is directly applies to the verses too O_O

I honestly am freakin out.... I would be fine with it if it wasn't for the fact that 4:140 said that we would be "like them"...this is getting really hard to handle for me....

[nevashiva]

 


I know how you feel exactly, by saying that you don't want to just all of a sudden become like them. Like it is just something that will print off uncontrollably, like magic.

Look, I can only speak from experience, I may go to hell, but!! I when I used to be in college, when I was around a 'mildly' bad company, It was much easier to get persuaded to do bad things, even though I don't even like doing those things, it is not even as tempting to me as it is to them. I did hash for a while for example, just because my friends wanted me to. It is such a stupid feeling, I don't like it, but my friends seemed to tell me it will help me relax....it just didn't but I just couldn't think they are wrong or it is not for me.

 Also my opinions are swayed sometimes according to the company I am around. Because I am unsure of my self, and I think peer pressure is just a powerful influence, and God knows it.

Do not underestimate the power to be influenced I guess is what I am trying to say. But....also, I believe in understanding what you are facing and not just hiding from it. I tried hash and alcohol, also to understand what God means by that mind influencing things are bad. How can I claim I believe in God's revelation if I have not tested them....I don't know how others feel about this, but I always confronted things I felt made me question my faith rather than just avoid them, or be *indifferent* about them, or worst to me is deny they exist. Because otherwise...I just feel fake.


I believe God says that you shouldn't claim you believe right away, but rather claim that you submit first and then believing comes later, I think it became much easier to me to not feel easily swayed when I understood that believing according to God is an ongoing process, you don't just do it cause you have to, I don't believe you can force it.

http://quran.com/49/14-14

Now revelation wise. Well God doesn't disown the Torat and the Enjeel in the Qur'an they are his revelations too. But the Bible is not just God's revelation, and this is a known idea to Christians themselves it is a collection of many things. So it is important to know what is being criticized, and also mocking/rejecting I believe are different than a real attempt of criticizing to get answers not to just say no you are stupid but I am not.

So study the revelations and then I think it would be much easier to sort out what sounds like God's revelation, and what doesn't seem like it. And I guess always pray to God to not be mislead. I think God wants you to understand how easy it is to be mislead and wants us to always ask for his protection against getting lost that way. So your concern is valid!! you should be. According to my understanding .


Don't panick about it, look as a pharmacist we are taught that we should tell smokers that if they want to quit they need to tell any friends that they decided to quit smoking. They would appreciate if they do not smoke in front of him to not tempt his urge. Otherwise he should avoid them. Same for AA, same for dieting!

So the concept is human limitation. Just understand it and work on it, do not choose to fear it . MY OPINION.

[nevashiva]

My biggest concern is television and other mediums where people might make fun of God and the revelations on there in a fictional sense and that even though its fictional if that still applies O_O 

Regarding television, I honestly recommend being very wary of just watching anything, just because it is TV, or a show. I don't want to sound paranoid. But even Madonna who TV made her be anything, did not want her kids to watch television, I think because she said it her self a lot of the preconceived ideas the TV gave were false, and not true, but it seemed very true to her when she was growing up. And it makes things that are bad look cool, and vice versa.

So I can't tell you don't watch this and that, but just be wary what is it that you are laughing/enjoy watching. And what kind of message is being given.

Just like porn is damaging to watch for example?.

Pray for guidance, and use your head and heart is my opinion...I could be wrong

[Kaiokenred]

You want to avoid those who ridicule the baseless trust/belief (faith) ?

[savage_carrot]

Regarding television, I honestly recommend being very wary of just watching anything, just because it is TV, or a show. I don't want to sound paranoid. But even Madonna who TV made her be anything, did not want her kids to watch television, I think because she said it her self a lot of the preconceived ideas the TV gave were false, and not true, but it seemed very true to her when she was growing up. And it makes things that are bad look cool, and vice versa.

And she made good things look bad presumably...most notable example of which would be her acting in movies.

My biggest concern is television and other mediums where people might make fun of God and the revelations on there in a fictional sense and that even though its fictional if that still applies O_O 

As far as non-interactive mediums are concerned, you can't interact anyways...either observe or change the channel/movie if it's crap.

[Aryan Warrior]

Now revelation wise. Well God doesn't disown the Torat and the Enjeel in the Qur'an they are his revelations too. But the Bible is not just God's revelation, and this is a known idea to Christians themselves it is a collection of many things. So it is important to know what is being criticized, and also mocking/rejecting I believe are different than a real attempt of criticizing to get answers not to just say no you are stupid but I am not.

So study the revelations and then I think it would be much easier to sort out what sounds like God's revelation, and what doesn't seem like it. And I guess always pray to God to not be mislead. I think God wants you to understand how easy it is to be mislead and wants us to always ask for his protection against getting lost that way. So your concern is valid!! you should be. According to my understanding .

Well first and foremost my beliefs are sturdy enough not to have me misled, so I have no worries about that.

As for the Gospal and the Torah, the problem is that they are books that have been modified and not the original and the verse itself itself seems to always refer to them as  "previous revelations" so it seems like they are disowned in favour of the Quran.

Regarding television, I honestly recommend being very wary of just watching anything, just because it is TV, or a show. I don't want to sound paranoid. But even Madonna who TV made her be anything, did not want her kids to watch television, I think because she said it her self a lot of the preconceived ideas the TV gave were false, and not true, but it seemed very true to her when she was growing up. And it makes things that are bad look cool, and vice versa.

So I can't tell you don't watch this and that, but just be wary what is it that you are laughing/enjoy watching. And what kind of message is being given.

Just like porn is damaging to watch for example?.

Pray for guidance, and use your head and heart is my opinion...I could be wrong

Porn is different, it fits under the catagory of "lower your gaze" The rest I really don't see anything wrong with as they are fictional stories for example you got movies like Thor which has the whole Norse Mythology mixed in and thus by loose attachment one can say it takes the "verse of God" is ridiculed by the film taking Norse Mythology as correct, which is what is scaring me here really... however examining the verse I can see this:
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4:140)

it says "sit with them" which makes me think it can only refer to a company in real life you are dealing with. However my issue is "revelations". I would like to think it only refers to relations here and not to the more general sense. General sense referring to God who presides over all religions and that one person might say in real life that "God is fake" or "God is three" or "God is father" or "God is a human" or "God is wrong" stuff that we shouldn't be saying but I would find it odd to think that simply hearing these interpreations of opinions of God would count as part of the "revelations" as Islam has its own interpreation of God while other people have their own too, but to a muslim it might be "ridicule" cause its the incorrect interpreation which is what frightens me really and thus I am thinking that it can only refer to the text of the Quran if ridiculed and doesn't mention God..though I am so unsure and scared here.

[Aryan Warrior]

As far as non-interactive mediums are concerned, you can't interact anyways...either observe or change the channel/movie if it's crap.

I understand, however what if we are discussing the film in real life such as "Thor" which talks about such mythology? like discussing the mythology of it even though I and likely others know it is fake. I know its quite a loose way of going about it but I worry that what if when stating revelations of God in ridicule might also refer to simply discussing other religions which in contrast is ridicule to this faith :/ As well I work in the film industry, so I technically do interact with the actors who are do their lines and might say such things, would this still apply even though they don't actually mean it?

Still rather depressed...and if not for the part stating that "you would be like them", I would not have been as depressed as it makes me fear that simply hearing it like that makes me a kaffir like that -_-

[Lena]

I know how you feel exactly, by saying that you don't want to just all of a sudden become like them. Like it is just something that will print off uncontrollably, like magic.

Look, I can only speak from experience, I may go to hell, but!! I when I used to be in college, when I was around a 'mildly' bad company, It was much easier to get persuaded to do bad things, even though I don't even like doing those things, it is not even as tempting to me as it is to them. I did hash for a while for example, just because my friends wanted me to. It is such a stupid feeling, I don't like it, but my friends seemed to tell me it will help me relax....it just didn't but I just couldn't think they are wrong or it is not for me.

 Also my opinions are swayed sometimes according to the company I am around. Because I am unsure of my self, and I think peer pressure is just a powerful influence, and God knows it.

Do not underestimate the power to be influenced I guess is what I am trying to say. But....also, I believe in understanding what you are facing and not just hiding from it. I tried hash and alcohol, also to understand what God means by that mind influencing things are bad. How can I claim I believe in God's revelation if I have not tested them....I don't know how others feel about this, but I always confronted things I felt made me question my faith rather than just avoid them, or be *indifferent* about them, or worst to me is deny they exist. Because otherwise...I just feel fake.


I believe God says that you shouldn't claim you believe right away, but rather claim that you submit first and then believing comes later, I think it became much easier to me to not feel easily swayed when I understood that believing according to God is an ongoing process, you don't just do it cause you have to, I don't believe you can force it.

http://quran.com/49/14-14

Now revelation wise. Well God doesn't disown the Torat and the Enjeel in the Qur'an they are his revelations too. But the Bible is not just God's revelation, and this is a known idea to Christians themselves it is a collection of many things. So it is important to know what is being criticized, and also mocking/rejecting I believe are different than a real attempt of criticizing to get answers not to just say no you are stupid but I am not.

So study the revelations and then I think it would be much easier to sort out what sounds like God's revelation, and what doesn't seem like it. And I guess always pray to God to not be mislead. I think God wants you to understand how easy it is to be mislead and wants us to always ask for his protection against getting lost that way. So your concern is valid!! you should be. According to my understanding .


Don't panick about it, look as a pharmacist we are taught that we should tell smokers that if they want to quit they need to tell any friends that they decided to quit smoking. They would appreciate if they do not smoke in front of him to not tempt his urge. Otherwise he should avoid them. Same for AA, same for dieting!

So the concept is human limitation. Just understand it and work on it, do not choose to fear it . MY OPINION.

I enjoyed reading your post. I have a strong committment to living in a righteous way, as previous to serving God Alone I was extremely sinful. My western workmates like to backbite & they gossip constantly, drink & party, talk about their sexual affairs etc. At first I accepted their social invitations, but I found I was being influenced by them and ever since I became a submitter to God Alone, I don't enjoy being around this type of behaviour, or doing it myself, so I stopped going to their social events. Now I keep to myself at work apart from professional discussions. The rest of my workmates and people in my community follow corrupted form of Islam (Sunnis)  and I don't mix with them socially either. I sometimes find it a very lonely and challenging road to be the outsider.  I do not have any friends where I live (in a small town in UAE). All I have is Freeminds!!!   I live by myself and  I am mostly spending my time in the house. I read & study Quran, pray, watch TV documentaries, movies, news.  I feel happy most of the time but some days I really feel lonely for righteous friends. I wonder about others who serve God Alone. Do you feel isolated? How do you cope with the lack of social / emotional support?
 I am thinking that when I finish my work contract here, I would like to move somewhere in the world where I can be near to others who have the same beliefs. God willing I will be able to get the necessary visa and financially be able to afford to do this.