Itís almost like youíre saying sex inside of marriage is not permissible for pleasure? Seriously re-read what you wrote to me. How canít sexual relation in marriage be purely for pleasure? In your theory the conclusion is sex in marriage should only be done to guarantee kids. Why is sexual acts only allowed for pleasure with MMA? Where did you get that theory from???
I think it's how i worded it. Hopefully i'l better word it now:
1) You can have sex in marriage for pleasure
2) You can have sex with MMA for pleasure
3) You can't marry primarily and purely
for having sex. That would be foolish and that is not the main reason for getting married as outline by 4:25.
4) You can start a relationship purely for sex
. This is not foolish.
It's foolish in marriage because you choose and assess a marriage partner primarily based on other than their sexual ability.
It's not foolish in a non-married relationship because in that non-married relationship sex may be the primary thing your after. There is nothing wrong with this in a non-married relationship. But the approach of prioritising sex when assessing and choosing a marriage partner is foolish given the purpose that marriage ought to have as suggested by 4:25
So I choose my partner because I think she has attributes xyz which are essential for marriage. Once I marry her, sex for pleasure is obviously fine. But had i chosen my partner purely for sexual reasons, then this is wrong.
I disagree with your translation. Muhsinat donate women who is against unchastity, so theoretically these could be 3 types of women, 1. A married women, 2 a chaste women, 3 a free women. the strongest meaning in my opinion and across most commentaries is that a muhsinat is a married women. see quranix for other translations
Would you still think that Muhsinat are married women despite the following verses:
4:25 And whoever of you cannot afford
to marry the muhsinat female believers, then
Notice the contrast of muhsinat with fatayat. What is there in the root of fatayat that pairs nicely muhsinat? I think dependence and independence. Not marriage.
5:5 Today, the good things have been made lawful to you
, and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them; and the muhsinat
females from those who are believers, and the Muhsinat females from those who have been given the Book before you.
And how would you account for:
4:23 Forbidden for you are...4:24 And the muhsinat from the women, except those maintained by your oaths
Can't marry the muhsinat unless they first become MMA or are already MMA.
You would probably benefit from seeing Savage_Carrot's reply to me and my reply to her regarding 4:23-24
4:3 talks about marriage, mma is a category of women you can marry not women you must marry
Apart from the muhsinat and the fatayat, are there any other categories of women? If not then IMO because of 4:24-25 whoever you marry must become MMA first.
Afaik gf/bf relations do not swear to a court, nor do a solemn promise with witnesses. There is no possession and afaik there is no legal binding. Today i can have a bf and tomorrow i can have a new one. There is no legal oath.
Imo they don't need to. Look at this:
2:224 And do not make God the subject of your casual oaths
. Be pious and righteous and reconcile among the people; and God is Hearer, Knower.
2:225 God will not call you to account for your casual oaths
, but He will call you to account for what has entered your hearts
. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
In my opinion the Quran makes a distinction between casual oaths and serious oaths and I cannot see causal oaths the way you have suggested as legally binding. I see it in the sense that if say x's friend y needs to see x's genetalia for an assessment of a disease despite y not being a doctor, y does not need to sign a document or have a legally binding oath to do this. Now depending on the nature of sex (causual) or serious, the type of oath can range from causal to what enters someone's heart IMO.
3) i donít have a concrete understanding of 23:5-6. However afaik Ma malakat ayimaanukum = Literally, those whom your right hands possess. The word AW can mean: or, that is, namely, call it, in other words.
Given 4:23-25 5:5 24:31, I strongly disagree that here the Quran intended to convey unguard your private parts to your wives who are technically your MMAs. IMO it is conveying you can ungaurd your parts to your wives and those whom your oaths possess.
in conclusion i do not see concrete evidence that sex before marriage is permissible.
Fair enough. But do you see concret evidence for sex before marriage being prohibited?
Should we prohibit that which is not prohibited?